D&D 4E What don't you like about 4E so far? (Not a rant)

[Alzrius]

There's already a thread talking about the points of 4E that people are especially excited about, so here's the inverse. What tidbits about 4E have you heard that made you frown? Is there a design choice that you don't think will work as well? Something you enjoy not making it into the Core Rulebooks (the first three, anyway)? Is your favorite setting being ignored, or altered in a way you don't like?

Discuss here, but please, let's not turn this into a rant-thread.

For me, I dislike the loss of the Great Wheel planar structure; there's a lot of history and familiarity there that I'll miss. I'm also worried about the rumor (I hope it's still just a rumor) that characters only get one attack per round. And of course, I don't like the idea that some popular monsters are deliberately being withheld from the first Monster Manual to make later ones more popular.

What, so far, don't you like?

 

[Daztur]

1. The silly wizard traditons.
2. Calling core things that aren't core.

Everything else looks good, especially the things that you don't like

 

[theredrobedwizard]

That I have to wait 'til May (ok, April, whatever) to play it.

Otherwise... um... that Paladin isn't a talent tree for Clerics. They're too similar to realistically warrant two separate classes.

-TRRW

 

[Kunimatyu]

Good call on the Paladin/Cleric thing.

In order of most annoying to least:

1. Wizard tradition names
2. New planar names (Shadowfell, Feywild)
3. Leaving out monsters that have been in every MM1
4. Not turning Paladin and Cleric into one divine champion class

Pretty small list, really, though I suspect it'll get bigger -- how do you please everyone all the time?

 

[Li Shenron]

A few things on the top of my head that I don't like so far:

- the probable exclusion of the Druid from the first PHB (or worse, the merging with Cleric)
- siloing of abilities, which is a restriction and not an option
- 30 levels of spells, which strongly suggests that spells are broken down in "versions" of different levels
- the even faster level advancement
- excessive simplification of the skill system (removal of skill points and merging of skills)
- the removal of saving throws, which have always been part of the fun of combat
- the complete removal of energy drain
- the nonsensical clerical ability to automatically heal an ally as a result of critting an enemy
- that critical hits can affect any monster (although this one can be saved if specific monsters are still immune)
- removal of confirmation rolls for critical hits

There are more things which don't come to my mind at the moment.

Nevertheless, there are just about as many things that I find to be interesting/good changes, so I am still very ambivalent on the new edition.



edit: one more added

 

[mach1.9pants]

The possibility of skilled/unskilled vs skill points to spend...
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=208584

 

[Betote]

- Monsters being constructed in a different way as characters; it's counter-intuitive and a big step back on RPG design, where almost every game treats monsters and characters in the same way.
- Per-encounter abilities for everyone; I think it screws the wizard-type players' fun of planning spells ahead and fighter-type ones' of not having to think of anything more than advancing, hitting, advancing some more. 3.x had it (mostly) right with having different classes appeal to different playing styles.
- Restrictions; While 3.x motto was "Options, not restrictions", it seems to me like 4E is going to be something more like "We decided this isn't fun for you, so you can't have it".
- Three core books per year; This is marketing stepping over designing. If I buy 3 core books, I want my game to be complete, with nothing left behind just because some guys want me to buy more books.

I'm waiting for 4E to come, and I agree that the 3.x publishing time was more or less over. However, there are some things I feel core to my tastes which, it seems, aren't going to make the cut

 

[Quicken]

- ZOMG SPECIAL SUPER POWER!!!!11one1 at level 1 (although I'd be happy with somewhat large power)
- I'll echo the concerns of 30 levels of spells
- Weapon sizes (yeah I STILL have issues with it)
- Lots of promising tools online... for a monthly fee.

There does seem to be a lot of good stuff though

For my group the new planar names isn't an issue as too few are experienced enough to know the old ones. Although I may miss saying 'where in the nine hells am I?'

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Classes that were part of the 3rd edition PHB might no longer be in the 4th edition PHB.
I will probably miss Bard or Druid (assuming that both are "done right" once they appear in a 4th edition format). Though maybe the new classes will be good enough to entertain me till the next PHB/Splat Book contains them.

 

[Imp]

Mainly the using old base classes and monsters to string people along so they'll buy new books, is what looks ominous. We'll see how it goes. Could be a nonissue, could be a dealbreaker (or a reason to wait until the "Complete 4E" box set comes out).

Oh, also a Mac user here, so there is that.