What edition had the ideal version of each class?

[scruffygrognard]

Fighter: Pathfinder
Cleric: 2nd edition AD&D
Rogue: Pathfinder
Wizard: 1st edition AD&D

 

[Neonchameleon]

I meant overall, as in the kinds of combat styles the rogue can use, the freedom to focus on combat or exploration or interaction, and yes skills.

Question 1: Other than Two Weapon Fighting, what kinds of combat styles do you think the 3e Rogue can use that the 4e one can't?

Question 2: If, as I have demonstrated, the 4e rogue focussed on exploration is more flexible than the 3e rogue focussed on exploration (the skills being simply that much more versatile), and at interaction they are about on a par (with the 4e rogue again being ahead through utility powers but the skills not being so overwhelmingly more useful), where are you saying this focus is different? That you can make a 3e rogue who doesn't do any exploration? Or that you can make a 3e rogue who is inept in combat?

The main difference in skill versatility is skill points vs. trained skills. A 3e rogue gets to learn new things every level if he so chooses. That means the 4e rogue cannot be "strictly" more versatile. Which you consider more versatile depends on what you mean by it.

Where the rubber meets the road, the 4e rogue has a broader range of options. I'm talking about versatile in play. Levelling up, a 4e rogue gets a feat and either a stat boost or a utility power every even numbered level (except 20), and an attack power every odd numbered level. And their skills automatically increase with level.

This is also the difference between PF (again esp. BB) and 4e, which otherwise have quite similar short skill lists.

And the PF rogue is closer to the 4e rogue than the 3e rogue is. This I don't dispute. The 4e skills are still more flexible, so, I believe, are the feats (there is no PF equivalent to either the Ritual Caster feat or a multiclass feat as far as I know), and the utility powers are at least as useful as the rogue tricks.

 

[Hassassin]

Other than Two Weapon Fighting, what kinds of combat styles do you think the 3e Rogue can use that the 4e one can't?

Almost all of the 4e rogue's powers are tied to a light blade or a crossbow. That means no elven rogues with longswords or longbows, for example. In 3e you could also go unarmed or use a sap to deal non-lethal sneaks. (Of course, in 4e you get to choose if you leave the enemy alive, no matter how you kill him.)

And the PF rogue is closer to the 4e rogue than the 3e rogue is. This I don't dispute. The 4e skills are still more flexible, [...]

If you want to count skills, PF BB Rogue is 8 + Int out of 19 skills. 4e is 6 (two set) out of 17 skills. The PF one has the flexible skill point system.

Anyway, I didn't really want to derail the thread when there's one specifically for rogue. Needless to say, the 3e/PF rogue is far from perfect, but it does cover the kinds of archetypes I expect the best.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Almost all of the 4e rogue's powers are tied to a light blade or a crossbow. That means no elven rogues with longswords or longbows, for example. In 3e you could also go unarmed or use a sap to deal non-lethal sneaks. (Of course, in 4e you get to choose if you leave the enemy alive, no matter how you kill him.)

There's a feat for the longsword. And IIRC for unarmed. That said, I don't like rogues with screamingly obvious weapons - I'd prefer urban rangers.

If you want to count skills, PF BB Rogue is 8 + Int out of 19 skills. 4e is 6 (two set) out of 17 skills. The PF one has the flexible skill point system.

And as I said, there is a lot that is outside the skill system in the PFBB like sleight of hand.

 

[Kynn]

There's a feat for the longsword. And IIRC for unarmed. That said, I don't like rogues with screamingly obvious weapons - I'd prefer urban rangers.

There are also feats for staves and warhammers (the latter if you're a dwarf), and also ruthless ruffians can use clubs or maces.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Fighter: 4E. By far. The best thing about 4th edition is the fighter (or the nerfing of wizards).
Rogue: 4E. By a hair over the PF version.
Cleric: 2E speciality priests if you added in 3Es spontaneous casting or 4Es minor action healing.
Wizard: 4E. No longer gets to completely dominate the table after 5th level.