What (else) got the shaft in 3E?

[Lord Vangarel]

We all know that the Ranger and Bard got shafted in 3E but what else did as well?

Our gaming group has had a few thoughts on this and here is our preliminary list:

1) Non specialist wizards to compared specialist wizards - come on, I get to cast an extra spell of each level per day but I can't cast spells from this school with very few really useful spells.

2) Any normal class to a prestige class - one of our players tried to convince me that if he was a normal wizard instead of an Alienist he'd be just the same. Yeah, sure, just the same with the Alienist better at everything.

3) Ogres - these guys just ain't scary anymore

4) Monks - these guys try to be everything and succeed at nothing

5) Half-elves - no reason to play what used to be the most prolific race


So come on everyone what else got the shaft?

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

Rangers didn't get the shaft. http://www.murchadslegacy.com/rantranger.htm

Half-Elves didn't get the shaft. They have that neato auto-search thing going on for them and low-light vision. If your game has a lot of darkness and traps half-elves are pretty cool. Plus, they're pretty flexible when it comes to character development.

Genearlist mages are supposed to be a notch weaker than their specialist friends.

Just my two cents.

 

[Jim DelRosso]

Hm. Always felt that Half-elves got half of the cool stuff Elves got, and none of the cool stuff that Humans got. And thus, the shaft.

 

[Henry]

3) Ogres - these guys just ain't scary anymore

...says the gamer who has never had his character impaled on an ogrish spear. The 2E version did 1d10 damage, average 5.5, with no possibility of critting. The 3E version does 1d10+9 (huge spear used two handed), average dmg. 14.5, with a chance of doing 3d10+27. Sounds darned scary enough to me.

4) Monks - these guys try to be everything and succeed at nothing

I find this incorrect, as they are excellent hunter-killers of 2/3rds of the character classes out there. They EXCEL as wizard- and sorcerer-killers, and they do pretty well against the other spell-user and skill-user classes as well.

5) Half-elves - no reason to play what used to be the most prolific race

And this is a bad thing? People used to play elves and half-elves in my campaigns all the time because they were superior - now they play them because they still hold their own, and because they WANT to. I would consider the bonuses they get as well as the multiclassing to be quite good reasons.

 

[BOZ]

hmm, one ogre nearly annihilated our party. of course, then we were 6 1st-level characters, so maybe that makes a difference.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

While I'm not advocating combat as the only way to measure classes abilities but it is one way.

Monks - in our campaign without someone casting a silence spell they can't hunt down wizards or clerics, against fighters they get blitzed, against rogues they have a chance in pure combat.

Ogres - good challenge at low levels but they need boosting for higher levels.

Half-elves - Jim DelRosso hit the nail on the head.

Prestige Classes - One of the claims of 3E is the balance but we're thinking of changing the name from Prestige classes to Classes you will take after about 5th level.

 

[Psion]

IMO, these did not get the shaft:

1) Non specialist wizards to compared specialist wizards

Not such a big deal now that you can much more easily get bonuse spells from int, it's not such a big bonus.

2) Any normal class to a prestige class

This only applies if you pick some bad apples as a PrC of reference.

3) Ogres

Orges are plenty scary. That huge strength bonus, large size, 10' reach = bad news for PCs! Add a few barbarian or fighter levels = dead PCs

4) Monks

No shaft here, either. Fast attacks, good saves, good skills, neat class abilities. Many people argue that it is overpowered, but IME, it is just about right, and has several excellent applications.


On the other hand, half elves did get the shaft. Elves also got the shaft other than if you are a arcane spellcaster or cleric, because otherwise, one of your primary racial abilities is squandered.

 

[Gez]

Those who got the shaft are all arcane casters (compared to the omnipotent clerics), and especially the sorcerers, comdemned to be a walking autocannon.

Ogres are still scary. Half-elven low-light vision, bonus against this and that, and capacity to use both elf-only and human-only feats, classes, and magic items are well worth the bonus feat and skill point of human.

Specialist wizards -- I personnally never found a reacl incentive at playing ones, because there are useful spells in all schools.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

Psion, a non-specialist wizard with equal stats and xp has one less spell per spell level per day than a specialist wizard. That's a pretty big benefit for being a specialist, with little penalty, over his non-specialist buddy.

 

[coyote6]

Half-Elves didn't get the shaft. They have that neato auto-search thing going on

Unfortunately, they don't.

Elves get +2 to Listen, Spot, & Search, and automatic Search checks vs secret doors within 5 ft.; half-elves just get +1 to Listen, Spot, & Search. No auto Search.