D&D General What Even Is The Deal With DnD Dragons?

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yes. Why does D&D have to reflect mythology or medieval themes? There should be room for original D&D fantasy creations without having to justify it against something else.
Sure, but who is suggesting they have to be justified against something else? I pointed out that they don't fit mythology, and that they just seem to be another alignment grid filler monster, and asked what is supposed to be special about them.

Dragon Turtles and Faerie Dragons are original to DnD so far as I know, but they are cool as hell.

But blue dragons and black dragons aren't really all that distinct from eachother, and could be much more interesting if they'd be designed from the start as a storm dragon and a swamp dragon, with no need whatsoever for them to be similar or at all related to eachother.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
They are their own thing now, and fit into the mythic D&D dragon model. Because D&D has started to become mythic itself.
Meh. D&D is once again threatening to become mainstream. If it does, it'll become a property on the order of Harry Potter, Twilight, or possibly even LotR. That's far from 'mythic.' (OK, LotR isn't too far, but it's 'high fantasy' was consciously imitating the epics prof. Tolkien felt the English language lacked.) D&D has become it's own nerd-culture sub-genre, if the current resurgence goes better than the original fad, it'll break out and become a pop-culture sub-genre.
 

MarkB

Legend
Meh. D&D is once again threatening to become mainstream. If it does, it'll become a property on the order of Harry Potter, Twilight, or possibly even LotR. That's far from 'mythic.' (OK, LotR isn't too far, but it's 'high fantasy' was consciously imitating the epics prof. Tolkien felt the English language lacked.) D&D has become it's own nerd-culture sub-genre, if the current resurgence goes better than the original fad, it'll break out and become a pop-culture sub-genre.
But weren't most mythic stories simply the mainstream pop-culture properties of their times?
 


In my homebrew, dragons were living weapons from a dawn war. The gods wanted them to be adaptable, so if a dragon hibernates, it can come out of hibernation as a different kind of dragon. So a red dragon goes to sleep and can wake up as silver dragon or a green dragon. Memories stay the same, but the emotional context changes (and hibernation tends to go for a while, so a human the dragon knew pre-hibernation is probably dead when the dragon wakes up).

I haven't decided on what makes a dragon change from one type to another (other than pretty much all young dragons are copper dragons and bronze-green-gold is a common sequence).
 


Chaosmancer

Legend
I also think it’s relevant to point out that a lot of the early (I’m thinking of the 1E MM here.) monster descriptions contain what amounts to directions for painting the miniatures. The players would know they were facing especially strong hobgoblins, for example, because of the blue dot of paint on their noses. Of course such description is literally mere color which you are free to change as suits your preference.

Huh, I did not know that. It makes sense considering the origins, but I had never considered the implications of that, since I am very much not a miniatures gamer (far too expensive for my poor butt)


I like Eberron's take on dragons, both the ditching of alignment restrictions, and the mysterious dragon continent.

I am kind-of tempted to get quite silly with Argonessen if/when a campaign goes there, and make it essentially dragon suburbia. Have dragons live there in communities not utterly unlike those of humanoids, but on a much larger scale, both geographically and temporally. Make the entire continent essentially one big city and suburbs, with dragons living in far higher population densities than any other setting (though still far lower than any human town or city) such that the continent-spanning settlement is equivalent in population to a modern capital city and its boroughs.

I'd apply Eberron's "wide magic" concept to the architecture and modern conveniences, except that, this being a draconic civilisation, it's not just low-level magic that's widespread. Dragons can call a Teleport as casually as we would flag down a taxi, and their meteorological department doesn't predict the weather - they make it, based upon the city's current social and economic requirements.

Any dragons seen outside the continent - aside from those silly Draconic Prophecy nerds - are loners or other social misanthropes who just can't stand the big city.

I'm not sure if I want to read it, play it, or watch it, but I definitely love this idea. Man, just trying to work the logistics of that is fun. What does a city look like when a River or a Mountain range is the equivalent of a street?


Yes. Why does D&D have to reflect mythology or medieval themes? There should be room for original D&D fantasy creations without having to justify it against something else.

I agree, but I think this is perpendicular to the point.

They don't have to reflect mythology per se, but in the move from mythology to game mechanics and game worlds you can lose the scale. It is possible for the Dragon to become just another monster, which is harder to do in a story where it is the only dragon you care about.

Sure, Smaug's story implies there are other dragons in the world, but we never see them, interact with them, or hear about them. Smaug is the only dragon the story cares about, so he gets more impressive. But, in DnD it is entirely possible to get "just another dragon" or for the dragon to be secondary to the "real" villain.

Same thing can happen with Ghosts. A single ghost, really leaning heavily into the fact that it is the echo of a living person, dead but remembering and hating the living. In DnD though, they can be throw away fights "six ghosts attack the party"

It isn't an aspect of the game per se, people can add and aggrandize the story of the dragon. But it takes work and focus to accomplish.
 

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