D&D General What happened to Sasquatch Game Studios?

[Fanaelialae]

It is. However, there is little that stops someone from setting up an LLC, designing a campaign that will gather funding with a long fulfillment window, pay salaries, find extra unexpected costs, discover unexpected challenges in development, see the timeline extended, pay more salaries, etc... until the project becomes impossible to complete. And when those types of problems arise, it can be difficult to prove the difference between bad luck, bad management, and fraud.

Yeah, but even when that happens, an update explaining what happened is the least they can do, IMO.

For example, ZNAPS was a KS I backed (fortunately, only for about $20). They raised over $2 million.

Their last update was on 9/25/16, when they said they were starting shipping and to please be patient.

Based on the comments section, no one ever got anything.

I suppose it's possible that something extraordinarily catastrophic occurred, but it does seem unlikely. Even then, unless the warehouse was struck by a meteor and everyone involved in the project simultaneously died, they could have at least posted an update. It's hard to imagine that this one could have been anything other than a (fairly successful) scam.

 

[Fifth Element]

Yeah, the gaming community has been indoctrinated into the idea of "generic fantasy" in a way that it hasn't been for "generic sci-fi".

There's an entire literary genre that could be called 'generic fantasy' - it's not a gaming thing. And using an inflammatory term like 'indoctrinated' isn't cool.

 

[Stormonu]

As far as KS's go, I'm a long-term victim of Robotech. Took me a few years to even consider coming back to try another.

On the Alternity front, I did grab a copy of the new version. It has some nice streamlining, especially in skills and skill costs and it looks like it'll be fun to play. I've noticed that Renegade Studio's GI Joe system uses an ability check similar to Alternity (d20 + diff/skill die), but the success DCs are set instead of scaling to your skill. It's like someone combined 5E and Alternity and took the best of both approaches. I'm curious if their other games are similar, and I haven't checked to see if any of the Renegade designers used to be Alternity designers, or maybe even just fans of Alternity.

 

[Yora]

It is. However, there is little that stops someone from setting up an LLC, designing a campaign that will gather funding with a long fulfillment window, pay salaries, find extra unexpected costs, discover unexpected challenges in development, see the timeline extended, pay more salaries, etc... until the project becomes impossible to complete. And when those types of problems arise, it can be difficult to prove the difference between bad luck, bad management, and fraud.

I think the key things lawyers would look for in a lawsuit are what work was actually done, where the money went, and particularly what wages were paid to whom.
If no work was done but all the money was paid as wages to the owners, that would be the most straightforward fraud.

 

[Morrus]

It is. However, there is little that stops someone from setting up an LLC, designing a campaign that will gather funding with a long fulfillment window, pay salaries, find extra unexpected costs, discover unexpected challenges in development, see the timeline extended, pay more salaries, etc... until the project becomes impossible to complete. And when those types of problems arise, it can be difficult to prove the difference between bad luck, bad management, and fraud.

That's a pretty extreme scenario involving serious pre-planned fraud; I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that Kickstarter has a fraud problem any greater than the rest of the world does. Generally, I believe things going wrong is almost always the most likely explanation.

 

[RealAlHazred]

That's a pretty extreme scenario involving serious pre-planned fraud; I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that Kickstarter has a fraud problem any greater than the rest of the world does. Generally, I believe things going wrong is almost always the most likely explanation.

Kickstarter actually once hired freelance writer Mike Harris to do a report on one of their failed Kickstarters, for the Zano drone project. He says they gave him full access and didn't ask to edit his final product (which he wouldn't have let them do anyway, but they never hinted at it.) Seems to me they were (at the time) as interested as we, the consumers, are in figuring out how to avoid fraud.

You can read it here.

 

[Umbran]

It is. However, there is little that stops someone from setting up an LLC, designing a campaign that will gather funding with a long fulfillment window...

There's one major thing that stops this. Such an LLC enters the space as a complete unknown. There can be no names anyone recognizes involved, and no history of success. Which means the project is unlikely to garner significant funding.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

There's one major thing that stops this. Such an LLC enters the space as a complete unknown. There can be no names anyone recognizes involved, and no history of success. Which means the project is unlikely to garner significant funding.

Unless they're really good at creating a false narrative about their "products". Cough Soulbound Studios Cough

Yeah, I know these tend to be the exception, rather than the rule, but there are enough people that can milk kickstarters that I try to do extra due diligence before backing.

 

[Umbran]

Unless they're really good at creating a false narrative about their "products". Cough Soulbound Studios Cough

Except, Jeromy Walsh at least had some personal credits in games to his name. There was an actual game studio around to sue, and that studio is now basically bankrupt. His reputation ruined, he's unlikely to ever run any major project again.

Not exactly a case where the perpetrators of fraud get away clean and free.

 

[jgsugden]

I think the key things lawyers would look for in a lawsuit are what work was actually done, where the money went, and particularly what wages were paid to whom.
If no work was done but all the money was paid as wages to the owners, that would be the most straightforward fraud.

Again, this is not an easy thing to prove. It is realatively easy to show enough to make the reasonable case that there was no fraud. Fraud has an intent element, and intent is hard to prove. How often do people really give the melodrama villain twirling speech to outline how and why they do their evils? It doesn't happen unless you're an idiot.

And if you brought lawyers in to resolve such an issue, the only ones that woudl really win would be the lawyers.