I was part of a group that playtested GURPS: VtM. Had a blast.
What happened with Vampire?
- Thread starter Dethklok
- Start date
IanWatson
Explorer
I'm really excited with what we're doing with the new stuff. Can't wait to share it.
Never "disappeared." Stuff has been coming out regularly since 1991. In 2010, WW made the switch from traditional print to a pure PDF/PoD model to avoid the pitfalls of distribution, which had the effect of getting WW books out of retail outlets too, so that may contribute to the impression of WW "disappearing." As Matt mentioned upthread, we've got some retail support in the works. The PDF/PoD model is working out pretty well for us so far.
I hear this a lot, and I don't entirely get it.
Under CCP, WW released the following (roughly in chronological order):
- Scion: Hero
- Damnation City
- MET: The Awakening
- Monte Cook's WoD
- Changeling: The Lost
- Scion: Demigod
- Requiem for Rome
- Scion: God
- WoD: Innocents
- The VTR Clanbooks
- Hunter: The Vigil
- New Wave Requiem
- Geist: The Sin-Eaters
- WoD: Mirrors
- Mage Noir
- Vampire: The Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition
- New WW fiction
... and dozens of other new supplements. Those don't seem like the actions of a company trying to kill off the various White Wolf IPs.
pickin_grinnin
Explorer
To be honest, I'm still not clear on why they thought it would be a good idea to end the OWOD and go to the NWOD. They didn't just make a few rule changes - they mucked with the entire look and feel of the games, got rid of the dark adult edge, took an excellent magic system and made it far less interesting and innovative, and even gave the art a more cartoony feel. They alienated a lot of their existing players, and were never able to build up the same kind of following with the new system (unsurprisingly).
I can understand the move to PDF/POD, doing so after alienating so many existing players really didn't help. The game more or less fell off the map. I rarely encounter anyone in gaming groups or at conventions who talks about the World of Darkness anymore, and those I do encounter are only interested in OWOD.
I would love to see some new OWOD products come out from Onyx Path, but so far I haven't really seen anything interesting. I would love to be able to buy some new material (in printed form) for OWOD, so hopefully they'll come out with something soon, but I don't see much of interest on their release schedule.
I can understand the move to PDF/POD, doing so after alienating so many existing players really didn't help. The game more or less fell off the map. I rarely encounter anyone in gaming groups or at conventions who talks about the World of Darkness anymore, and those I do encounter are only interested in OWOD.
I would love to see some new OWOD products come out from Onyx Path, but so far I haven't really seen anything interesting. I would love to be able to buy some new material (in printed form) for OWOD, so hopefully they'll come out with something soon, but I don't see much of interest on their release schedule.
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Viking Bastard
Adventurer
IIRC things said at a party years ago, CCP originally meant for VtM to be their big followup to Eve: Online, but then Eve became much bigger than hoped and all resources kept getting directed back to the main product.
And VtM got shelved a few month ago according to the local media. For now, anyway.
The feeling one got from the CCP rank-n-file at the time of the buy-out was that CCP was "saving" WW, much in the same way WotC "saved" TSR--CCP was largely born out of the local gaming scene and they were all big fans (WoD was pretty dominating of the scene here in the 90s). Didn't work out as well, I guess (and I don't know how WW saw it, or CCP's leaders, for that matter).
True. I actually liked the NWOD core rules, though. I think they could form an excellent basis for a 'X-Files' like campaign with mundane, human characters. OWOD, however, felt like it was written with playing supernatural beings in mind. Entirely different premise.
The only other NWOD book I own / have read is Changeling. Rather than playing a Fae in human guise like you did in OWOD, you now play a human that was abducted by the Fae and managed to escape. Obviously, this makes for a very different kind of game and also explains the comparably lesser power of the supernatural abilites. I suppose, it's similar for the other NWOD books.
Scorpio616
First Post
What happened? Company got greedy and tried to sell folks too many redesigns.
Viking Bastard
Adventurer
So this has finally hit the non-local media:
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/public-r...s-halts-development-of-world-of-darkness-mmo/
pickin_grinnin
Explorer
That's a shame.
They need to sell off the rights and let someone else have a go at it if they aren't willing to.
White Wolf is a good example of how bad business decisions can destroy a once great company.
They need to sell off the rights and let someone else have a go at it if they aren't willing to.
White Wolf is a good example of how bad business decisions can destroy a once great company.
Neonchameleon
Legend
The short version is they'd gone about as far as they could go - with the setting and with the metaplot. By the time they started working on the nWoD the oWoD was piled so high and so deep it was almost impossible for a new player to get into it at the same table at an old player. Too much was established, so they were in the trap the current DCU was in - everything published was being published for fans, and so they might be selling as much stuff but it was to fewer and fewer people.
They needed to try something radical (Exalted on its own wasn't enough). Some entry ramp for people to join in with. A new PC monster type wouldn't cut it. They already had enough. They needed a new approach to the World of Darkness, and so the obvious thing was a reboot as the only way forward was osssification. Some of the nWoD was an improvement (Changeling), some wasn't (Mage) - but all of it pissed off a lot of their die hard fans because it reset the old one, and by that point White Wolf were in their niche strongly enough that they basically didn't have many people who'd buy things from them that weren't die hard fans.
evilbob
Adventurer
Yeah, it seems unfair to characterize the shift to New WoD as greedy or a huge mistake; the truth seems more like they were already losing their base, so they tried a semi-risky move to broaden it back out and stay relevant (to the homogenization that d20 was bringing back then) and the move just didn't work. It seems more like a straightforward business decision, and people burn them for it, but the end result was always going to be: either we survive or we don't, and neither road apparently lead toward more Old WoD material. It's a shame, but there aren't a lot of early 90s niche-market companies still around anymore anyway, so they're frankly doing pretty well by re-releasing the core book PDF-only as an anniversary edition. They could be as dead as the MMO linked above and no one gets anything, ever.
Sort of an interesting side note: WotC basically did the same thing (complete reboot to broaden their base audience) with their D&D product and had considerably more success (although just as much angst was created in the process). So you can't really even fault White Wolf for trying. Perhaps there was a way for it to have worked; they just didn't find it.
Sort of an interesting side note: WotC basically did the same thing (complete reboot to broaden their base audience) with their D&D product and had considerably more success (although just as much angst was created in the process). So you can't really even fault White Wolf for trying. Perhaps there was a way for it to have worked; they just didn't find it.
