What happens if a character stabilizes at -5hp, but they are in the water???

[Brimshack]

Another angle might be something along the lines of a special heal check for drowned characters. If their lungs are filled with water, then so be it, but perhaps those dead by such means could still be revived by a successful heal check at a DC comparable to the save at the time it is tried. Success means the character returns to the -1 (or -6 in this instance) status.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I read you drown faster in fresh water.

Water enters the bloodstream through the lungs, making the blood hypotonic (eg not enough salt); that causes red blood cells to pop. Salt water doesn't do that (it's three times saltier than blood).

The red blood cells really do pop when the blood is too un-salty, but I don't know if water can cross from the lungs into the blood that fast.

 

[AE020704]

IRL: Unconscious people breathe. IE. they drown.

This sucks for RPGs though. Treat them as if they're holding their breath. However, since they are at negative HP, they're still out cold. Also, if they're in armour they're sinking.

I hope they have friends with a lot of ranks in Swim...

 

[Ghendar]

Humans do have a natural reflex to hold their breath in water.

Even when unconscious?
?????

Agreed. While death would probably be following with the rules, I try not to kill off my players in such an ignominous fasion. Doing so rarely engenders joy and satisfaction for roleplayers.

I've never had a situation like this happen. I'm not sure how I would rule. Does it suck for the PC to die in a such a fashion? Yes, but it's not like it's the DMs fault either. I guess I would be as lenient as possible and allow the unconscious PC to hold his/her breath.

On the subject of "joy and satisfaction"..........
I'm not trying to sound like a rat bastard here but the players should not be pissed with the DM who's just following the rules.

 

[RangerWickett]

Even when unconscious?
?????

From Wikipedia, source of all truth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning#The_body.27s_reaction_to_submersion

Submerging the face in water triggers the mammalian diving reflex This is found in all mammals, and especially in marine mammals such as whales and seals. This reflex is designed to protect the body by putting it into energy saving mode to maximize the time it can stay under water. The effect of this reflex is greater in cold water than in warm water and has three principal effects:

• Bradycardia, a slowing of the heart rate of up to 50% in humans.
• Peripheral Vasoconstriction, the restriction of the blood flow to the extremities to increase the blood and oxygen supply to the vital organs, especially the brain.
• Blood Shift, the shifting of blood to the thoracic cavity, the region of the chest between the diaphragm and the neck, to avoid the collapse of the lungs under higher pressure during deeper dives.

The reflex action is automatic and allows both a conscious and an unconscious person to survive longer without oxygen under water than in a comparable situation on dry land.

Not that I necessarily trust my life to Wikipedia, but if it's good enough for me to research Sumerian deities for my d20 Modern game, it's good enough for me to base my drowning rules on.

 

[el-remmen]

I allow unconscious characters underwater to continue holding their breath.

(More or less) Immediately dying because you fell unconscious while fighting in knee-deep water is non-heroic and non-interesting.

I have the opposite point of view.

Dying after 3 rounds because you fell unconscious while fighting in knee-deep water is tragic, but part of the risk of fighting in various environments, and fits the tone of my games.

 

[Ghendar]

From Wikipedia, source of all truth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning#The_body.27s_reaction_to_submersion



Not that I necessarily trust my life to Wikipedia, but if it's good enough for me to research Sumerian deities for my d20 Modern game, it's good enough for me to base my drowning rules on.

Well, dip me in chocolate and call me a bon bon. How about that?

I'm more interested in hearing about this d20 modern Sumerian thing though.

 

[LostSoul]

More from the same Wiki page:

The reaction to water inhalation

If water enters the airways of a conscious victim the victim will try to cough up the water or swallow it thus inhaling more water involuntarily. Upon water entering the airways, both conscious and unconscious victims experience laryngospasm, that is the Larynx or the vocal cords in the throat constrict and seal the air tube. This prevents water from entering the lungs. Due to this laryngospasm, water enters the stomach in the initial phase of drowning and very little water enters the lungs. Unfortunately, this can prevent air from entering the lungs, too. In most victims, the laryngospasm relaxes some time after unconsciousness and water can enter the lungs causing a wet drowning. However, about 10-15% of victims maintain this seal until cardiac arrest, this is called dry drowning as no water enters the lungs. In forensic pathology water in the lungs indicates that the victim was still alive at the point of submersion; the absence of water in the lungs may be either a dry drowning or indicates a death before submersion.

edit: I read about this a long time ago in an article about free diving. Apparently it's common to pass out when you're heading back up, but it's no big deal.

 

[werk]

I read you drown faster in fresh water.

Water enters the bloodstream through the lungs, making the blood hypotonic (eg not enough salt); that causes red blood cells to pop. Salt water doesn't do that (it's three times saltier than blood).

The red blood cells really do pop when the blood is too un-salty, but I don't know if water can cross from the lungs into the blood that fast.

Ooo, I remember that lesson... Salty makes the blood hypertonic and the eurythrocytes become crenelated.

Trivia:

Spoiler

Roughly how many red blood cells does a human body contain?

Another consideration is that if you are in a medeivel fantasy setting, it's very likely the characters are not as comfortable in the water as we are today. We shower and bath exponentially more than the characters would. And while we learned to swim at an early age, the characters probably are not very strong swimmers, with no standardized swimming method. Doggy-paddle is the standard default for mammals, but the europeans were doing the breastroke for a long time...we only just learned freestyle swimming from the native americans. I have taught swimming to inner city kids and adults, with little to no exposure to water environments, and let me tell you, getting them to just dunk their head underwater for a second or two is a VERY traumatic experience for most of them.

So while we, today, in the real world, can reason out that WE may do something to protect ourselves from drowning, it's highly unlikely that our characters would respond the same way...unless they have a very high swim skill or something.

.02

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I've never had a situation like this happen.

I did - and that's why I decided to rule the way I did.

PCs fighting in an ancient lizard-man temple. The high altar room has a statue of an old-school lizard god, water running from his mouth, down his trident, into a pool, which was about mid-calf deep on a dwarf.

Dwarf attacks one of the priests, who hops into the pool. Dwarf follows, trades blows, falls unconscious, and lands prone in ... yes, 6 inches of standing water.

DM rules that the drowning rules apply. Since the dwarf is already unconscious, we skip the "fall unconscious" step and go right to step two. Dwarf dies before anyone is able to pull him out of the water.

Now, are the drowning rules entirely at fault here? No, of course not. However, they did figure very prominently in the player's death (who might have died anyway from blood loss, but, hey, 4 rounds of "Save the dwarf!" is better than 2 rounds of "Watch the dwarf die!").

So, in my games, unconscious underwater = breath holding rules.