D&D General What Happens if a Cleric/Warlock/etc PC Gravely Offends Their Supernatural Patron?

[Minigiant]

That rather breaks down with all those devil and demon cultists who have cleric spellcasting.

Well that never made sense so....

How can a being without divine power give you divine power?

 

[Cadence]

Well that never made sense so....

How can a being without divine power give you divine power?

The "gods" are just the beings with the best propaganda. Anyway, back to this contract...

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

What Happens if a Cleric/Warlock/etc PC Gravely Offends Their Supernatural Patron?

I would simply rule that the PC must have been following different patron/deity all along, without knowing it. And it has no effect on the story.

I would not allow such an insult to hijack the story without a little discussion with the entire group - if they dislike the current storyline, then perhaps we could use this as a hook to turn the story into a different angle.

Any Patron/deity taking an active role against a PC would almost inevitably be the main storyline, bigger than whatever occupies the PCs until then, so as soon as the patron/deity does anything the story changes permanently.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well that never made sense so....

How can a being without divine power give you divine power?

The divine/nondivine distinction is pretty much arbitrary. Warlock metaphysics as presented really don't make much sense and it gets even sillier when there are things like celestial warlocks and warlocks of the Raven Queen. I like the warlock mechanics and I'm a sucker for creepy edgy characters, but the fluff really is a mess.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well that never made sense so....

How can a being without divine power give you divine power?

Because clerics are powered by belief. If the cultist believes the being they worship is a god they can get cleric spells.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because clerics are powered by belief. If the cultist believes the being they worship is a god they can get cleric spells.

So warlocks are the ones who are actually gifted magic by greater beings, whereas clerics just think that this is the case, but their gods don't even need to exist?

 

[Cadence]

So warlocks are the ones who are actually gifted magic by greater beings, whereas clerics just think that this is the case, but their gods don't even need to exist?

The clerics' brains can't deal with the idea that the clerics themselves are the real power, and build a fiction to buffer their psyches that are already pushed to the limit by being able to draw on raw power from the outer and positive/negative planes?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So warlocks are the ones who are actually gifted magic by greater beings, whereas clerics just think that this is the case, but their gods don't even need to exist?

That's my take, yes.

 

[Jer]

Yes it is a mechanical balance issue, in that part of the balancing mechanisms for these classes is that their actions are restricted by the choices they've made* in terms of who their deity/patron is and what said deity/patron expects of them in return for the powers granted.

Take away those restrictions and those classes become much more flexible in what they can do and how they do it, and thus more powerful.

I don't believe that this is true. In my experience the classes are mechanically balanced against the other classes - if you take away the Patron and create a "Patronless Warlock" who had all of the powers but no Patron fluff I do not believe that you would have an unbalanced character in any way because the idea of balancing mechanics with roleplaying elements went away with 3e and has fortunately never come back into class design.

I'm willing to be shown to be wrong though - what aspect of the Warlock (or Cleric or Paladin) become unbalanced if you ignore the fact that they have some kind of "patron" that powers them? If that still exists in 5e I'd like to know.

 

[Redwizard007]

That's my take, yes.

This part of the conversation basically breaks down to, "what Planescape faction are you?"