D&D General What Happens if a Cleric/Warlock/etc PC Gravely Offends Their Supernatural Patron?

[Oofta]

There is an ambiguous overlap.

"Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook."

I rule that the player can prepare from these new leveling spells directly, that the player "can" add, before going into the spellbook, but lose any excess spell.

Feel free to run it any way you want. I think it's quite clear. It's true that you don't have to get access to the 2 free spells per level, you don't have to put them in your spell book. There's nothing in the text to indicate that you automatically prepare them, which you have to do from your spellbook.

I don't think it's a reasonable reading of the text but it's nothing I'm going to argue about. It's just a weird edge case red herring anyway.

 

[Yaarel]

Feel free to run it any way you want. I think it's quite clear. It's true that you don't have to get access to the 2 free spells per level, you don't have to put them in your spell book. There's nothing in the text to indicate that you automatically prepare them, which you have to do from your spellbook.

I don't think it's a reasonable reading of the text but it's nothing I'm going to argue about. It's just a weird edge case red herring anyway.

For me, the NPC Wizards lack spellbooks, often enough. So gaining the spells while leveling (in effect doing "Spell Research" via leveling) is how they get any new spells.

 

[Oofta]

For me, the NPC Wizards lack spellbooks, often enough. So gaining the spells while leveling (in effect doing "Spell Research" via leveling) is how they get any new spells.

Just because NPC wizards hide their books somewhere inaccessible to the PCs doesn't mean they don't have spellbooks. But obviously do whatever makes sense for your campaign.

 

[Yaarel]

Just because NPC wizards hide their books somewhere inaccessible to the PCs doesn't mean they don't have spellbooks. But obviously do whatever makes sense for your campaign.

In my setting, "spellbook" isnt necessarily a "book", and an NPC Wizard might not have any kind of book.

But spell research is a thing, and 5e does while leveling.

In the sense that they discover the new spell independently while leveling, they by definition "know" it, long enough to prepare it directly. This situation while leveling and gaining new features, is different from preparing a spell while adventuring.

 

[Oofta]

In my setting, "spellbook" isnt necessarily a "book", and an NPC Wizard might not have any kind of book.

But spell research is a thing, and 5e does while leveling.

In the sense that they discover the new spell independently while leveling, they by definition "know" it, long enough to prepare it directly. This situation while leveling and gaining new features, is different from preparing a spell while adventuring.

I look at it as the wizard figuring out the correct "formula" as they study. That includes starting to write things down until eventually the calculation works. The wizard starts with a base and then figures out what to add, but it's so complex that it's difficult to keep in their head so they have to write it down as they figure out the bits and pieces. I'm just going by the letter of the rules here which of course isn't always logical or complete.

As far as the physical representation of the spellbook, that of course is open to whatever the DM says it can be.

 

[Yaarel]

I look at it as the wizard figuring out the correct "formula" as they study. That includes starting to write things down until eventually the calculation works. The wizard starts with a base and then figures out what to add, but it's so complex that it's difficult to keep in their head so they have to write it down as they figure out the bits and pieces. I'm just going by the letter of the rules here which of course isn't always logical or complete.

As far as the physical representation of the spellbook, that of course is open to whatever the DM says it can be.

Keep in mind, the Ranger is casting some of these same spells without a spellbook.

For me, the "spell research" is a thing, mostly intuition and unique to each caster, like a fingerprint.

 

[Oofta]

Keep in mind, the Ranger is casting some of these same spells without a spellbook.

For me, the "spell research" is a thing, mostly intuition and unique to each caster, like a fingerprint.

Most classes now have some overlap of spells because it's more convenient. Clerics and warlocks "cheat" by borrowing their power instead of studying the true nature of magic to manipulate the ether (or weave or whatever) to get their spells. Druids and rangers get spells because of their connection to nature, a paladin because they're so stuck up devoted to their oath they cast spells by force of will. Sorcerers just inherit the power.

The only one that really needs to study is the wizard, they're different so have different requirements.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

In my setting, "spellbook" isnt necessarily a "book", and an NPC Wizard might not have any kind of book.

Yep, they could be clay tablets, that hold 5 spells each, and the wizard used to know 15 spells, but he dropped one of the tablets and it broke, so now there are 10.... 10 spells!

 

[Yaarel]

Most classes now have some overlap of spells because it's more convenient. Clerics and warlocks "cheat" by borrowing their power instead of studying the true nature of magic to manipulate the ether (or weave or whatever) to get their spells. Druids and rangers get spells because of their connection to nature, a paladin because they're so stuck up devoted to their oath they cast spells by force of will. Sorcerers just inherit the power.

The only one that really needs to study is the wizard, they're different so have different requirements.

But these same classes can alternatively cast spells using the material component, in addition to verbal and somatic, much the way a Wizard does.

 

[jasper]

You get fired. 100d6 fireball.