D&D General What Happens if a Cleric/Warlock/etc PC Gravely Offends Their Supernatural Patron?

[Yaarel]

@Oofta

What makes the Wizard unusual, is the ability to "record" a spell in order to re-access it later.

But the spell research to gain a new spell while leveling seems true for all D&D classes. (Even the Warlock!)

(Even the Cleric might have insight into the spell itself if the sacred cosmic force is the Weave.)

(The Sorcerer would make more sense flavorwise, if never using any material component, and using the "blood line" as the spell focus instead.)

 

[RoughCoronet0]

I voted for every option except for the “nothing” option.

Now, the answer as to how my group handles topic of how patrons/gods interact with their Warlock/Cleric and how a Paladin’s oath is interacted with as far as upholding and breaking said oath is determined by who is Dming at the time, though all of us have actively used patrons and gods in our stories and tend to follow the logic that if you are actively trying to screw over said entity or ignore your oath and tenets then something will happen.

For my homebrew world specifically, it will depend on a number of factors such as the offense or actions causing offense, the intent behind the action that caused offense, how the character has acted up to the point where such a decision of consequence seems imminent, and the entity/entities involved and their ideals/goals.

However, there are consequences to offending your god/patron in my world, as well as consequences for breaking your oath, and I make sure that my players know this during session zero so they can plan accordingly.

 

[Oofta]

But these same classes can alternatively cast spells using the material component, in addition to verbal and somatic, much the way a Wizard does.

They don't have spellbooks, the power source of their magic is different.

 

[Oofta]

@Oofta

What makes the Wizard unusual, is the ability to "record" a spell in order to re-access it later.

But the spell research to gain a new spell while leveling seems true for all D&D classes. (Even the Warlock!)

(Even the Cleric might have insight into the spell itself if the sacred cosmic force is the Weave.)

(The Sorcerer would make more sense flavorwise, if never using any material component, and using the "blood line" as the spell focus instead.)

Nothing says that. A cleric is granted spells by their god, a warlock from their patron. Druids and rangers from their connection to nature. Paladins get it from prayer and meditation. Artificers are the most comparable.

I don't know why you're making an issue out of this. Have a good one, I'm done.

 

[Lanefan]

Am I imagining things, or is there a push going on here for Wizards to be freed from yet another minor drawback, that being the requirement to carry a spellbook around?

Sigh....and people wonder why they get out of hand.....

 

[Maxperson]

I think it should depend on how grave the offense is. Here's a ranking, from lowest level of transgression to utter and total blasphemy-

1. Warning.

2. Temporary loss of spellcasting.

3. Permanent loss of spellcasting. May be fixed by atonrment.

4. Permanent loss of all abilities granted by deity or patron. Cannot be fixed by atonement.

5. Death.

6. Transmogrified into a bard. Pretty much how the universe creates them.

This. What happens is pretty circumstantial and could include everything in the poll, what Snarf posted, and seeking out a paladin.

 

[Aldarc]

Am I imagining things, or is there a push going on here for Wizards to be freed from yet another minor drawback, that being the requirement to carry a spellbook around?

Sigh....and people wonder why they get out of hand.....

Why should a wizard lose spell slots when they cast? It’s not fair that a fighter can swing their sword all day but a wizard can’t cast fireball all day. Aren’t they the masters of magic? It doesn’t make since!

 

[Raduin711]

With clerics, it depends on the deity, and the cleric.

Some deities are going to care about things like "was his heart in the right place?" and others are not going to have time for that nonsense. Kinder gods are more forgiving; wrathful, jealous gods are not.

And then it depends on where the cleric stands. A cleric may not understand how or if they have broken a deity's trust, which may in turn affect how a deity reacts to it. A cleric can switch to another deity or philosophy if necessary.

Basically, it's a partnership between the cleric and the deity, contingent on the cleric's faith. If there are problems, they need to work them out, or break the partnership. Admittedly, it's an odd partnership in that one party is perpetually mute and practically all knowing and generally only acts to voice displeasure...

Warlocks I see as more transactional. The Warlock made some sort of pact with their patron, and so long as the Warlock abides by the rules of the pact, there is nothing the patron can do. Much like the mythical hero who outsmarts the devil or a faerie, the patron can stomp and fuss all they like.

If the Warlock breaks the rules of the pact- that's it. Powers rescinded, Unless the patron wants to amend the pact, or the warlock signs on with another patron, or the Patron lets them sign on again.

But I recognize neither of these classes have these stipulations RAW. But I think it makes sense for them to have them and I think most players do too.

 

[Minigiant]

To me.

Patrons are not gods.

Patrons make warlocks because it's the best they can do. They would make clerics if they could.

Patrons are 2 tiers under godhood. Below demigods. Warlocks is not a version of cleric. It is an alternative form of wizard. It is the patron transforming a pact holder to cast magic a different way. There is no constant stream unless the patron is also a god (is Asmodeus).


The patron can't simply drain out the warlocks magic with a flick of the wrist. They'd had to perform the same ritual in the warlocks presence. But this time the warlock would be unwilling. So they'd need to capture and immobilize them. Usually with minions.

Easier to just kill the offending warlock with same minions.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That rather breaks down with all those devil and demon cultists who have cleric spellcasting.