What happens with reliable multi-target powers?

[kerbarian]

For example, the fighter level-9 daily Thicket of Blades is reliable and lets you attack everyone in a close burst 1.

The definition of reliable is: "If you miss when using a reliable power, you don't expend the use of that power."

So does that mean that if you hit twice and miss once with Thicket of Blades, it's not used up? You could even use power attack to make it more likely you'll get at least one miss.

 

[Zurai]

Good question.

RAW, if you miss at all, you retain the power. Thus if you use a close burst 1 and hit 7 adjacent creatures while missing the last 1, you can do it all over again on the next round.

I'm fairly certain that's not how it's intended to work, though.

 

[Mort_Q]

If you miss when using a reliable power, you don't expend the use of that power.

RAW, if you hit, you didn't miss, so therefor it is used up. So unless you miss all of your rolls, it gets used up.

 

[Zurai]

RAW, if you hit, you didn't miss, so therefor it is used up. So unless you miss all of your rolls, it gets used up.

Cite your source that defines a multi-target power as missing only if all targets are missed?

 

[Mort_Q]

Cite your source that defines a multi-target power as missing only if all targets are missed?

No.

The intent is obvious.

 

[spuppett]

I agree. If you hit at least 1, then you've hit and used your power.

 

[Surgoshan]

Yeah, if you can attack 7 people and miss 1... and you've ruled that reliable means if you miss at all then it's not used up? Then you've broken the power. The fighter just has to move around to get as many people in his purview (which he wants to do anyway) and all of a sudden he's become a whirling dervish, killing his way through the crowd.

The intent of the reliable keyword is that if you hit at all, then the power has hit. Only if you don't hit at all has the power missed.

 

[Zurai]

No.

The intent is obvious.

You claimed Rules As Written, that's how it works. Your claim is false. Rules As Written, if you miss at all it's retained.

Obviously, that's not how it's intended to work. But don't claim RAW when you mean RAI.

 

[small pumpkin man]

I agree. If you hit at least 1, then you've hit and used your power.

RAI, yes, I agree, but RAW, Reliable doesn't say "if you don't hit" it says "if you miss", as in...

if (miss)
--do not use up power.

Or using 4e terms

Daily * Martial Weapon
Standard Action --- Close Burst one
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see.
attack: blah vs blah
hit: do damage/effect
miss: do not use up power

Both RAW and RAI are clear, and different.

 

[Surgoshan]

You claimed Rules As Written, that's how it works. Your claim is false. Rules As Written, if you miss at all it's retained.

Obviously, that's not how it's intended to work. But don't claim RAW when you mean RAI.

What it actually says is "Reliable: If you miss when using a reliable power, you don't expend the use of that power." What it should say is "This power is only expended if you hit with it."

It's under the meaning of "reliable" in the explanation of keywords in the section on how to understand powers; comes before the cleric entry. The powers themselves don't have the superfluous "Miss: [text]" entry explaining that they're reliable, since they have it as a keyword up top.