What holds the world in balance? (or, why aren't demons over-running the world?)

[Celebrim]

Answers for me:

1) No demons or devils, at least not as organized independent races. There are fiendish servitors of the evil dieties, certainly, and some of them may even have familiar diabolical or demonic forms, but the incarnated ideas aren't separatable into two parallel groups.
2) The good dieties have their own armies of servitors.
3) They've tried it before. Neither side won, lots of gods died, and the world got seriously wrecked. Most sides agreed that if they kept it up, there wouldn't be a world to fight over, and even some of the bad guys sided with the good guys in thinking that was a bad thing. After that, they agreed to a truce whereby they would be represented in the world by mortals and fight by proxy. Demons don't go rampaging, because angels would go rampaging in retribution and all heaven and hell would like break lose. So, both sides tend to play it subtle, knowing that any direct intervention invites an equal retaliation by the other side.
4) The outer planes are infinite only in the sense that ones imagination is infinite. They are unbounded and infinitely extensible, but their capacity to contain an infinite space doesn't mean that there is actually an infinite amount of things within them. The forces of heaven and hell are therefore finite. It's not like there is an infinite abyss containing an infinite number of demons. And mortals are mighty enough that if you spent your servitors too freely trying to dominate them by force, you might find yourself crippled in your dealings in the outer planes.
5) If they would be fully honest, it is because there are things about the world that the gods of both sides don't understand fully and it scares them. For example, a DC 30 religious check would reveal to a player that the Gods never expected mortals to be able to obtain such heights of independent power. It wasn't part of the design for mortals to become 20th level superbeings, and the Gods have no idea how it happened or happens. It would be like if you invented chess in order to resolve your disputes, and then found the peices could do things you never imagined or intended them to do. Ever since the Iconoclasm, the Gods and their servitors have been extra circumspect and careful in dealing with the world.

 

[Jdvn1]

I just can't buy that restraint or lack of appetite is going to stop a demon from the ultimate lolly shop that is the prime material plane.

Lolly shop? What makes you think mortals taste good?

Note to demons that may be following this thread: Herremann may be tasty. I'm not.

 

[Garthanos]

Heroes of course, silly!

perfect answer.

 

[LostSoul]

This thread inspired me to determine how the MM monsters threaten the world.

What I came up with is that undead are the biggest threat, followed by gnolls and then the underdark monsters (aboleth, mind flayers). Orcs, goblins, and kobolds are threats but not so bad. Yuan-Ti, Kuo-Toa, Minotaurs, and Troglodytes are a danger but are tied up in their own realms and not a huge danger unless they "get loose". (I figure that Dark Elves are mostly focused on the Feywild.)

I based this on the level of the monster (in general), the number of the monsters at large, and the desire to cause havoc. There are enough Giants, for example, to cause problems, but they don't really do all that much, being melancholic and withdrawn (since the Primordials lost the Dawn War). The same thing goes with Dragons - since they are so powerful - but they don't really care for much except their hordes.


In terms of "demons", I figure demons are far too chaotic to provide a major threat, unless there are hordes of them. Which doesn't happen too often, considering the difficulty of opening a portal to the Abyss. (An epic-level feat as far as I can tell.)

Devils can only enter the world through ritual, but not many beings have the will to bring them here. Most evil creatures worship demon lords, so they wouldn't deal with fallen angels at any rate; powerful non-demon lord worshipping creatures don't trust the devils that could help them out.

Evil angels are a problem, yup, but they have the same strictures as devils - they can't come of their own will. Evil worshippers are generally loathe to bring them over, lest they be judged wanting by the angels, though some do (notably Trogs).

 

[Umbran]

Is there a canonical reason? What about yours, if you've thought of it?

There is no canon for gods, insofar as there are no core rules for them - only supplemental ones that many DMs do not use.

The basic answer seems fairly simple - the Powers that Be must work through mortal hands. None of the Powers can just appear in the mortal world and do what they want. They have to be brought to the mortal plane, and the number of folks with the ability to do that is limited, and they are usually opposed by someone else of similar ability.

In essence, the Abyss doesn't open up onto the world because there's groups of Adventurers beating the snot out of the Evil Wizards and High Priests, and vice versa.

 

[Desdichado]

Somewhere in the middle, I'd wager. "Grimdark" is generally used somewhat sardonically to describe the various Warhammer settings. In particular, the tagline for WH 40K is "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war." It means bleak, poor living conditions, etc. PoL is probably not as grimdark as WH, but it's more in that direction.

Yes, I know. I think my reference might have been slightly too esoteric. It's not reasonable to assume that everyone would recognize a single Penny Arcade reference.

 

[Nyeshet]

I use a multilayer transitive plane system in my home-brew cosmology. Deities and celestials exist at one end and fiends at the other. As each moves towards the other end, they become progressively weaker with each layer of the transitive plane. The central plane in the layered layout has become known as the Plane of Battle due to the hordes of fiends ever facing off against armies of celestials. Fiends can get past this plane, but they will be at a disadvantage, and if found the celestials that deal with them will be notably stronger. Celestials can try to push the battle further towards the Fiendish plane, but again they will be at a disadvantage against empowered fiends. The world happens to be on the celestial side of the battle lines, and so few fiends manage to reach it - let alone overrun it.

That did happen once, at the end of the first age. [It is currently the third age.] It was this event that encouraged the deities to create and maintain armies of celestials on the Plane of Battle. It took over a thousand years for human(oid)ity to regain most of what they lost, re-civilize, etc.

 

[Celebrim]

I use a multilayer transitive plane system in my home-brew cosmology. Deities and celestials exist at one end and fiends at the other. As each moves towards the other end, they become progressively weaker with each layer of the transitive plane. The central plane in the layered layout has become known as the Plane of Battle due to the hordes of fiends ever facing off against armies of celestials. Fiends can get past this plane, but they will be at a disadvantage, and if found the celestials that deal with them will be notably stronger. Celestials can try to push the battle further towards the Fiendish plane, but again they will be at a disadvantage against empowered fiends. The world happens to be on the celestial side of the battle lines, and so few fiends manage to reach it - let alone overrun it.

That did happen once, at the end of the first age. [It is currently the third age.] It was this event that encouraged the deities to create and maintain armies of celestials on the Plane of Battle. It took over a thousand years for human(oid)ity to regain most of what they lost, re-civilize, etc.

That's pretty cool, especially if you are going for interdimensional intrigue.

 

[Shemeska]

I don't know, if you offered a demon the opportunity to go-a-hunting solo on the prime material, how many demons are going to refuse rather than gorging themselves? Unless their appetite is less than their fear, they ain't gonna refuse an invitation.

Well it's probably less a case for the hordes of lesser demons, and increasingly so once you get to the true tanar'ri level (maralith, balor, etc). The abyssal lords and their Blood War enforcing-proxies the molydeus, are going to be doing their best to force their will on their lesser kindred, and while it doesn't always work, it keeps a decent lid on things. Plus, as was mentioned, the lesser tanar'ri don't have the innate ability to venture to other planes. You're left with gates, which can be restricted, and other choke-points.

And I left out one big element in my earlier answer: deities. Nothing ruins a tanar'ri horde's day than some random deity of some random world who decides to slaughter them by the millions as they come rushing out of a massive planar rift. Gods wouldn't dare try the same stunt in the Abyss or anything to take any active role in the Blood War (given past consequences for those actions...) but fiends are out of their home turf on the prime material and the situation is -decidedly- reversed, and they don't have the protection of their lords on their home plane, or the mystique of 'though shalt not get involved in the Blood War or bad things happen dude, trust us, you totally don't want to know what happened to the last god who tried to get involved... grinning 'loths, all we can say...'

 

[Voadam]

And I left out one big element in my earlier answer: deities. Nothing ruins a tanar'ri horde's day than some random deity of some random world who decides to slaughter them by the millions as they come rushing out of a massive planar rift. Gods wouldn't dare try the same stunt in the Abyss or anything to take any active role in the Blood War (given past consequences for those actions...) but fiends are out of their home turf on the prime material and the situation is -decidedly- reversed, and they don't have the protection of their lords on their home plane, or the mystique of 'though shalt not get involved in the Blood War or bad things happen dude, trust us, you totally don't want to know what happened to the last god who tried to get involved... grinning 'loths, all we can say...'

Was there any canonical past deity involvement in the blood wars?