What if? (3.5 change)

[Technik4]

Saw someone mention that cleric domains might be changed, and someone else refute that we know anything about that. True, but what if a cleric got a domain at 1st, 5th, 15th, and 20th. Hmm, thats a lot of domains. Ok, how about 1st, 10th, and 20th?

I think a lot of the power for the cleric comes from getting 2 domains (essentially feat or better worth of power) and I've seen people take a level or 2 of cleric just for the domains (also some domains are NOT taken, almost ever like the alignment ones).

Technik

 

[Ranger REG]

Personally, three domains at 1st, 6th, and 12th levels.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

I like the idea that a Cleric would gain a domain every 5 levels (even if it is more powerful in the end). Aside from the spells, it would represent how much a particular deity favors his mortal priest.

Why wouldn't a 20th level character be able to represent all, or almost all, aspects of a deities area of concerns?

 

[CRGreathouse]

(essentially feat or better worth of power)

I don't think that domain powers are worth more than a feat, especially at first level. Sure, some grant a bonus feat, but those are (1) mostly non-core and (2) generally weak feats.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Re: What if? (3.5 change)

Let me see:

Luck--one reroll per day. (Worth a feat? I'd say so).

War--Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus in Deity's favored Weapon. (Two feats if you're counting--one weak and one average to good).

Elemental Domains--turn/command elemental creatures (Worth a feat? You betcha)

Magic Domain--Use items as a wizard of level/2 (worth a feat? Definitely)

Death Domain--Death touch (Worth a feat? Probably)

Destruction Domain--Smite 1/day (Worth a feat? Extra smiting is a decent feat)

Animal domain--cast Animal Friendship 1/day (animal companions for one feat; where do I sign up?)

Plant Domain--Turn plant creatures (Worth a feat? How about Plant Defiance?)

Sun Domain--Greater Turning (Worth a feat? Probably)

Alignment domains, healing-- +1 clvl for certain spells (Worth a feat? Probably not but it's at least as good as Endurance and Skill Focus).

If you allow non-core domains, domains like Family, Elf, Dwarf, Metal, etc all have powers that are at least as good as good feats. It looks to me like most domain powers are at least as good as feats.

I don't think that domain powers are worth more than a feat, especially at first level. Sure, some grant a bonus feat, but those are (1) mostly non-core and (2) generally weak feats.

 

[Umbran]

Why wouldn't a 20th level character be able to represent all, or almost all, aspects of a deities area of concerns?

Maybe because he chooses instead to specialize only in representing some of them? Or maybe because that's a bit hubristic, thinking that one person can effectively cover all those areas properly?

While it's not illogical that a 20th level caster might be able to do this, it's perhaps a bit much to say that every 20th level caster will do this.

So, make gaining extra domains a feat - if the cleric wants to do this, make it something he has to try to do.

 

[Nifft]

That's exactly what I do. One Domain is free at 1st level, the rest must be bought with Feats. Of course, IMC Domains are both better and worse than in Core Rules.

Differences:
- IMC, you can spontaneously convert spells to Domain spells for any Domain you have.
- IMC, you cannot spontaneously convert spells to Cure/Inflict unless you take the Healing/Harming Domain.

Due to these changes, I've made significant changes to both the spells offered and the powers granted by Domains.

See them here:
http://klimt.cns.nyu.edu/~fishman/DnD/religion.html

-- Nifft

 

[Madriver]

Maybe because he chooses instead to specialize only in representing some of them? Or maybe because that's a bit hubristic, thinking that one person can effectively cover all those areas properly?

While it's not illogical that a 20th level caster might be able to do this, it's perhaps a bit much to say that every 20th level caster will do this.

So, make gaining extra domains a feat - if the cleric wants to do this, make it something he has to try to do.

Well, 20th level characters in a campaign setting are supposed to be the rarest of rares. So it is not unlikely that every 20th level priest is about to become or already is the gods chosen champion or representative in the world. Most of the written godly avatars themselves are barely above 20th level, so assuming that there will be multiple uber-clerics running around is not quite right.

 

[Umbran]

Most of the written godly avatars themselves are barely above 20th level, so assuming that there will be multiple uber-clerics running around is not quite right.

I think that in general, if you intend to keep challenging your PCs at such a level, there had better be a number of such guys around, or they'll quickly run out of challenges.

All in all, it's pretty campaign world dependant. Some worlds 20th level characters are rare. In others, these guys seem to be coming out of the woodwork. Given that, it seems reasonable to assume less, and allow for flexibility, rather than to assume more, no? Also, this doesn't just effect 20th level, but everywhere along the way.

The question becomes general, and level independant - is it better to assume that all clerics aim to represent everything the deity represents, or allow them the ability to do so or not as they desire?

 

[Technik4]

Clerics probably should just have bonus feats as wizards, this customization allows for greater degrees of clerics. For instance, if you look at domains as an overall picture of how devout a cleric is, then as to which domain picked, to which aspect the cleric really personifies it seems clear (to me) that clerics should have bonus feats as wizards, but only start with 1 domain. Bonus feats can be spent on divine feats, item creation, and Extra Domain (prereq: 4 levels Clr).

Of course, since this is a buff to the strongest class in the game, they should lose something. Personally I'd tone down their armor 1 level (start with medium) and reduce their HD to a d6. The cleric spell list also needs to be gone over with a fine tooth comb to "name" all the unnamed bonus a cleric gets. This would prevent the uber-"fighter"-clerics by making them choose which spell they want, rather than stacking them all together.

Technik

Not that we'll see that in 3.5 of course.