What if all dailies were encounter powers?

[Plane Sailing]

I couldn't help wondering the other day what effect there would be on the game if all the daily powers were instead considered to be 'powerful encounter powers'.

Ever since they were announced I've seen some people express difficulty in handling martial daily abilities (I know it can be described as player narrative control rather than PC ability, but I also understand why some people find that unsatisfactory).

Obviously it would make PCs more powerful if they can use their 'dailies' every encounter - but how much more powerful?

All characters get the same number of dailies - so would they all improve the same amount?

Cheers

 

[Phaezen]

Interesting question....

Maybe changing them to encounter powers might be over doing it slightly, how about "Milestone" powers so they can be used every second encounter or so?

Making them encounter powers would encourage spamming of powers, with them only being available once a milestone you are atleast asking the players to make a choice as to which powers they will use in an encounter.

Phaezen

 

[Morrus]

Wouldn't that mean that people would rarely use the existing encounter powers, though?

 

[WhatGravitas]

Wouldn't that mean that people would rarely use the existing encounter powers, though?

Not if you can only use *one* daily power per combat, i.e. making them some sort of "super"-encounter powers. This way, normal encounter powers still stay valuable (even without blowing through all the dailies first).

Though I would differentiate between attacks and utilities, since they are so different, i.e. one daily attack and one daily utility power per combat.

On the other hand, it would take some "nova" capabilities from the PCs, meaning they don't have the panic-button option of burning through all dailies in a single combat.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Wouldn't that mean that people would rarely use the existing encounter powers, though?

Well, my encounters almost always run to 13-15 rounds in duration (I've been keeping count!) so even if they always led off with their daily powers in every encounter, the dailies plus encounter powers would still only take up half the total time of the encounter.

to clarify - when someone reaches 3rd level, they still choose a level 3 encounter attack power. When they reach 5th level they still choose a level 5 attack power (which happens to be a 'daily').

However, I can see that there would be an issue for utility powers. What cleric would choose Bastion of Health (ranged 10, spend a healing surge with +Cha hp regained) over Cure Serious Wounds (touch, healed as though 2 healing surges used) or divine vigour (close burst 5, everyone regains their second wind).


The main benefit I've got in mind of doing this approach is that running out of healing surges becomes the only reason for deciding for an extended rest (rather than at the moment a party could blow all their daily powers in the first room and then decide to go back home for a rest again. It isn't necessarily likely in most peoples games but it is certainly there as a possibility with the existing rules.

 

[Sadrik]

This was basically the point of my HR, that gives power points - make dailies (and at-wills encounter powers in a balanced way).

I like yours, this could speed up combat more and make combats more interesting by giving players more options. Just make sure you keep the dailies separate from the encounters when they select powers. For instance you can not use an encounter slot to take a daily. That should be pretty obvious though.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

We did this for about seven sessions, until I reverted the rules back to dailies as dailies, encounters as encounters.

A large part of challenging your players revolves around resource management. While it certainly sped up combat, it also gutted that attribute of 4E, which I feel is just as much a part of the core feel of the rules as the economy of actions is. There are also a number of utility powers that can easily bend/break the rules outside of combat that are eerily akin to the "scry, buff, teleport" stuff that pervaded the earlier editions.

Instead, I moved towards allowing a player to refresh a daily on a natural 20 roll or alternatively, gain an action point.

 

[keterys]

I think the biggest problem I'd have is that so many dailies are like Flaming Sphere, Armor of Agathys, Rain of Steel, etc... so basically you'd have people getting chewed apart by continual damage.

I'd have to seriously alter the difficulty of my encounters, too, since my fights are more in the 6 round range it'd probably make at-wills not used past a couple levels into heroic.

I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea, but I think there's a bit to figure out there.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

I think the biggest problem I'd have is that so many dailies are like Flaming Sphere, Armor of Agathys, Rain of Steel, etc... so basically you'd have people getting chewed apart by continual damage.

I'd have to seriously alter the difficulty of my encounters, too, since my fights are more in the 6 round range it'd probably make at-wills not used past a couple levels into heroic.

This is precisely the issue I witnessed. Continual damage, effects on miss, continuous "buffs" usable every encounter; since players always take a chance to rest to regain their encounter powers, it really, really threw the balance entirely off kilter.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'd have to seriously alter the difficulty of my encounters, too, since my fights are more in the 6 round range it'd probably make at-wills not used past a couple levels into heroic.

6 rounds? Interesting. What level are the party at the moment?