What if all dailies were encounter powers?

This is precisely the issue I witnessed. Continual damage, effects on miss, continuous "buffs" usable every encounter; since players always take a chance to rest to regain their encounter powers, it really, really threw the balance entirely off kilter.

It's interesting to hear about experiences of problems with this approach. It highlights the inequality in the design of some dailies.

Dailies which are sustainable or which last to the end of the encounter are unbalanced if they are available in every encounter. Other dailies which just do damage or do an effect in one round and that is it... not so much.

Cheers
 

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6 rounds? Interesting. What level are the party at the moment?

How long is combat lasting for your group?

Since my group hit level 5, combat lasts around 6-7 rounds. The level 5 powers really begin to speed things up (Rain of Steel, Sign of Vulnerability, Excruciating Shot, Walking Wounded).
 

The party is currently level 6, playing through Thunderspire Mountain - almost all their encounters since level 4 (when I started counting) have been a dozen rounds or more. The most recent ones have been

15 rounds (encounter with troglodyte wandering monsters)
16 rounds (entrance to well of souls)
8 rounds (gnoll barracks)
17 rounds (practice hall and shrine to baphomet)
12 rounds (hall of crimson whip)
15 rounds (howling pillars)
 

The party is currently level 6, playing through Thunderspire Mountain - almost all their encounters since level 4 (when I started counting) have been a dozen rounds or more. The most recent ones have been

15 rounds (encounter with troglodyte wandering monsters)
16 rounds (entrance to well of souls)
8 rounds (gnoll barracks)
17 rounds (practice hall and shrine to baphomet)
12 rounds (hall of crimson whip)
15 rounds (howling pillars)

Are they using combat advantage to their benefit or enviromental hazards?
 

nb the parties level 5 powers are

Crack the shell (sword and board fighter)
Dizzing Blow (maul fighter)
Fireball (wizard)
Avernian Eruption (infernal warlock)
Stand the Fallen (warlord)
Consecrated Ground (cleric)

- no at the moment we have one of each role plus a bonus defender and bonus leader.
 

nb the parties level 5 powers are

Crack the shell (sword and board fighter)
Dizzing Blow (maul fighter)
Fireball (wizard)
Avernian Eruption (infernal warlock)
Stand the Fallen (warlord)
Consecrated Ground (cleric)

- no at the moment we have one of each role plus a bonus defender and bonus leader.

We have a Warlord, a Fighter, a Ranger and a Rogue in our group. It may be that the combination of the strikers that sweep the foes aside quicker than your group, although I know the players didn't optimize with one another (as they were disallowed to build their characters together).

However, they often use the battlefield to their advantage. I often place pits, rough terrain, hazards and traps throughout the battlefield. We don't play by module, but I do build the encounters out to be moderate to hard (following the DMG rules).

Are you allowing them to get their effects off, regardless if they hit or not? I missed that part in the PHB for a long time, and once I instituted it as was intended, it made combat move much more rapidly.
 

At earlier levels we had an archer ranger and a rogue, but things didn't go much quicker then by my recollection.

The WotC modules are pretty light on interesting terrain - the party have made full use of precipices and fires when they have been available, but they've been somewhat few and far between.

Are you allowing them to get their effects off, regardless if they hit or not? I missed that part in the PHB for a long time, and once I instituted it as was intended, it made combat move much more rapidly.

I know their powers better than they do, and I often have to remind them of effects which are ongoing no matter whether they hit or miss (or remind them of useful powers which they have for a particular situation). We play once a fortnight, and these are experienced gamers, but getting the hang of things is taking a while.

Cheers
 

Not playing 4E at the moment, but when we did, the DM added a house rule that an action point could be spent to regain a Daily or Encounter power. This seems to at least partially address PS's martial Daily issue, but it uses up a resource to do so.

The problem we experienced and why the house rule was added is that the Wizard could not Fly multiple targets or Dimension Door more than once per day (whereas the Eladrin could Fey Step multiple times per day). Even a Shield spell is for a few seconds per encounter.

Of course the house rule above is more balanced for Wizards than Fighters. Most Fighters would almost exclusively use it for Daily powers whereas Wizards would often use it for Utility encounter powers.


I am currently trying to put together a set of house rules to make spells feel more like spells (i.e. have decent durations with or without sustaining, be castable multiple times per day, etc.) for the next 4E campaign we run.

I like many aspects of 4E, but I dislike the fact that spell casters feel like warriors. Every problem is a nail and the spell casters have so many hit for damage spells. Magic is no longer special, it's just another power (and often a hit point damaging one at that).
 

Dailies which are sustainable or which last to the end of the encounter are unbalanced if they are available in every encounter. Other dailies which just do damage or do an effect in one round and that is it... not so much.

Cheers

I think this just highlights the imbalance of dailies in general. Dailies that last the whole fight are just plain better imo than ones that don't.
 

If you want more dailies to increase encounters per day add milestone houserules. Every milestone recharges one daily power (either attack or utility). It keeps everyone happy on my table and I cannot say I've found it unbalancing.
 

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