D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Thomas Shey]

At least on ENWorld, I agree, outright derisive statements are rarer, usually it's just a "I don't like 4e because of X", where X is usually not 100% accurate. Now if you went to, say, the Giant in the Playground forums or (shudders) Reddit, it's a whole different kettle of fish.

Its scar tissue. People got so used to receiving so much ridiculous hyperbole and/or inaccurate put downs that when they see something that even smacks of moving in that direction, their reactions are already primed. I've seen enough of it in other contexts over the years to recognize it when I see it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Oh, I totally agree there. The mentioned Doctor Who game using 5e mechanics is a perfect example of this.

But, it's not billed as a "D&D" game is it? It's billed as it's own thing. Even going back to things like Mutants and Mastermind - while built on the d20 system - it wasn't billed as D&D but with mutants.

Yeah, but there's quite a lot that go out of their way to make it clear that they're based on 5e specifically, and not infrequently once you get away from whatever genre specifics they're emulating, they're a whole lot closer than even M&M 1e was to 3e. Again, the motivation to not make people relearn things and to ride on those coattails is pretty strong. As an example you'll see a class system in places where its even less clear that it makes any sense than D&D.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Which is really pretty funny since frequent magic-item drops go all the way back to OD&D. You might not have much control what you ended up with, but as an example, by the time you were hitting 8th level you probably were handing off magic swords to henchmen if you rolled that way because you had so many of them. And it was, while not likely, entirely possible for a Staff of Wizardry to drop as soon as the tables that had staves on them showed up (and that wasn't all that late).

That's why I don't get the insistence on magic items being bad.

And back to the genre discussion, my friendly helpfully reminded me that the traditional, cannot be replaced in core, only tweaked core magic mechanic is... cribbed from a Sci-Fi series about sentient computer programs.

 

[James Gasik]

That's why I don't get the insistence on magic items being bad.

And back to the genre discussion, my friendly helpfully reminded me that the traditional, cannot be replaced in core, only tweaked core magic mechanic is... cribbed from a Sci-Fi series about sentient computer programs.

D&D has a lot of weird pulp science fantasy elements in it's DNA, and yet, people seem to think it can only do Knights and Castles.

 

[Vaalingrade]

D&D has a lot of weird pulp science fantasy elements in it's DNA, and yet, people seem to think it can only do Knights and Castles.

Reminds me: who do I have to hunt like an animal for weeks in the deep, steaming jungle after luring them to my private island with the promise of a free vacation to get a new Stronghold Builder's Guide?

 

[James Gasik]

Reminds me: who do I have to hunt like an animal for weeks in the deep, steaming jungle after luring them to my private island with the promise of a free vacation to get a new Stronghold Builder's Guide?

Sorry, WotC's financial department has decided these sorts of books aren't profitable. You'll have to find some third party developer.

 

[Mecheon]

Why would we expect monks to change dramatically because of anime?

The thing is, the monk was basically done up based on the equivilent at the time, martial arts movies. Its very much based on that older side of things.

And, well, its not the 70s any more and the whole idea of that has changed as media has changed. As people come into D&D from elsewhere, they don't want to play "A TV show from the 70s", they're going to want to play the wider archetype of 'monk' as its known elsewhere. Just like a wizard can cast spells, which D&D supports, you'd think it'd support it on other stuff. People coming in new don't care about D&D's historical monks, they wanna play (Insert anime/comic/video game/xianxia archetype of your choice here)

anywho, that's why level 20 monks should be able to have their head chopped off and survive long enough to have it attached to another body, shoot bows with the strength of a balista, sword strikes indistinuishable from lasers and also have access to ridiculous poisons. Frankly balanced compared to the nonsense wizards through out

 

[Helldritch]

I believe the whole monk thing is the monk being special only in look.

The monk is not best in any of the major categories or roles of a D&D class not is it best at a combination of categories/roles. So it feels pointless outside of fluff and feels unnatural in-world.

THEN you add in that the monk doesn't match any modern representation of a fantasy martial artist and BOOM!

It isn't a class that sits near the top of anything mechanically AND it doesn't really do what you want it to. It becomes a case of being unable to strongly translate a cool idea in your head to the table.

The Monk is more of a support class than anything.
It should not be the main tank.
It should not be the main scout (unless build for it).
It is not usually the main damage dealer.
But it exactly where you put it. In the middle. There are a few classes like this. And that is good!
In a group of 6 peoples, some are bound to be support and specialists as this is exactly at this number (well, 5 actually) that you start to need generalist or specific tasks specialists. The specialist should not be gimping the party but should be able to contribute. And the monk is one of those.

 

[Minigiant]

That's why I don't get the insistence on magic items being bad.

And back to the genre discussion, my friendly helpfully reminded me that the traditional, cannot be replaced in core, only tweaked core magic mechanic is... cribbed from a Sci-Fi series about sentient computer programs.

5e went too hard on the base using zero.
The issue wasn't magic items and feats but the number. People didn't want a base of PCs with 20 magic items and 5 feats at level 10.

5e was built aroun hving zero of both but people really wanted afew of each. Doing the classic overraction of something in a previous edition thing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

20 magic items and 20 feats, at level 10, let's go!