What, If Anything, Might be Wrong with the Warblade?

[castro3nw]

imagine your 6-person party where everyone takes that manoeuvre with Martial Study and then they all use it on the best nova-er of the group (Psion if you have one, Sorcerer if not), allowing that character 6 rounds of actions every round.

Oh, I understand the implications of multiple people having the WRT... Offensively it can be a house, either with a nova of some sort or any sort of stunning... Of course, for them to all take it with Martial Study, they'd be using up their lvl 12 feat... Since initiator level is only 1/2 for not-initiator classes.

*grin* Worst necromancer ever actually meant one of the party members... To my knowledge, has never raised anything... But instead enjoys shooting rainbows at things. Fun times...

 

[Rystil Arden]

Oh, I understand the implications of multiple people having the WRT... Offensively it can be a house, either with a nova of some sort or any sort of stunning... Of course, for them to all take it with Martial Study, they'd be using up their lvl 12 feat... Since initiator level is only 1/2 for not-initiator classes.

*grin* Worst necromancer ever actually meant one of the party members... To my knowledge, has never raised anything... But instead enjoys shooting rainbows at things. Fun times...

WRT is so incredibly brokenly powerful that it is easily worth their 12th-level feat, though. And yes, it works great with stun--if you keep having the Swooping Dragon Attack guy go with WRT, you can perma-auto-stun an entire team of enemies

 

[Victim]

WRT is better than the 9th level Time Stands Still.

 

[Nail]

While it is doable I would say it is not really easy. Or at least it takes a significant amount of resource allotment.

No argument here! What I mean is: "If a skill is important enough, you can figure out a way to get a high score in it." And: "It's not that hard to get a high score without gimping your PC." In this PC's case, he certainly didn't gimp himself in all other areas to do it.

I'm concerned....but also willing to give it a go. I really want to see it in play, with a Ftr in the same party, at the same level, with the same amount of equipment, etc.

If ours were a game that used the Magic Item system as given in the DMG, these manuevers that beg for high checks would get very out-of-hand. So part of the balance we're seeing in our game comes from house rules in other areas that just happen to limit the Warblade. If those house rules weren't there....

 

[jasin]

Weapon aptitude -- Ok, fighter should so have 90% of this... But Warblade has few enough feats that fighter feats are a tough choice to fit in.

This is why I would call this "adding insult to injury": not because it makes the warblade shockingly powerful, but because it seems a perfect way to cause resentment and perceptions of overpoweredness even if none exists.

As a warblade, there's enough interesting feats to take before I'll look to simple, always-on bonuses, so weapon aptitude doesn't really excite me.

As a fighter, I have enough feats to take interesting ones and Specialization &c., so weapon aptitude would excite me, but I don't get it.

I'd take away weapon aptitude from the warblade and give it to the fighter. The warblade isn't really any weaker (there are other feats at least as good as +2 to damage), but the fighter is a bit more versatile, and his signature ability, questionable though it is, gets a little boost. Now just make 6th, 12th and 18th level feats "wildcard feats", like the man-at-arms from Iron Heroes has... but now that's "fixing the fighter" and not "what's wrong with the warblade".

 

[Nail]

This is why I would call this "adding insult to injury": not because it makes the warblade shockingly powerful, but because it seems a perfect way to cause resentment and perceptions of overpoweredness even if none exists.

Well said.

 

[DungeonMaester]

If Bo9S Stances and maneuvers truly not a problem, then other melee classes such as the Paladin and fighter pick some up as they go along..Like a Substitute level or something.

Ive never liked Bo9S myself because I thought it was just a slap in the face to all the other martial classes.

---Rusty

 

[Nail]

If Bo9S Stances and maneuvers truly not a problem, then other melee classes such as the Paladin and fighter pick some up as they go along..Like a Substitute level or something.

They can, as a feat.

 

[DungeonMaester]

They can, as a feat.

How does the feat work?

My post was referring to the classes picking a progression style they like..Presuming that Bo9S Stance/Manurers is set up in the same manner as Wizards, Sorcs, And bards cast spells.

---Rusty

 

[Slaved]

This is why I would call this "adding insult to injury": not because it makes the warblade shockingly powerful, but because it seems a perfect way to cause resentment and perceptions of overpoweredness even if none exists.

While I would not mind everyone having a similar option I am under the impression that many people find the players handbook 2 a necissary addition to the game to make fighters better. In that book there are retraining rules for basically anything. I do not have the book with me at the moment so I do not know how long it takes to retrain feats but it seems that the only thing that the warblade has going here is that he could do it faster.

It is a nice ability though. I would look at it as a template for similar abilities for everyone however. Reduce the chance of people being forced to keep any poor choices made in the past and even have a mechanical way of demonstrating certain character growth aspects.