D&D General What if the Blood War ended? (Possible Outcomes Discussion)

[dave2008]

Aren't the Primordials imprisoned on Abeir by Ao? I'm just curious as to how they manage to do this. I like the idea of the evil gods freaking out, I might steal that, but their response in my version would probably be different.

Here is what I found in the 4e FR Campaign Guide:
"✦ The Elemental Chaos: The primordials dwell in this roiling storm of raw creation. This section offers a brief tour of major primordial realms."

and

"THE PRIMORDIALS
The Elemental Chaos provides essential building blocks for all matter in the cosmos, the primordial seed of all that is. The gods fear this wild plane of unimaginable extremes, and they respect the primordials that call it home. The few primordials that remained in Toril when Abeir split away never fought the gods as their fellows did. These primordials are sometimes worshiped as deities despite their elemental origin

The Elemental Lords
Five primordials rule realms within the Elemental Chaos. All but the chaotic evil Bazim-Gorag are unaligned.

Akadi: The Queen of the Air is the mistress of flying creatures and all that takes to the thin air. Her airwalkers teach that wisdom can be found only in trial and error, a foundation for faith as thin as the air that their mistress embodies.

Bazim-Gorag: The Lord of the Pandemonium Stone (see the sidebar) is an ascended batrachi dedicated to pure chaos. He is chance incarnate, invoked by the powerless, the gamblers, and anyone who has lost hope in anything but an impossible twist of fate.

Grumbar: The Lord of the Earth is a being of stone and dirt, the foundation upon which all else is built. The earth makes no choices—it simply is. His earthwalkers resist change in any form.

Istishia: The Lord of Water is the embodiment of the constantly mutable nature of water. Not interested in Umberlee’s storms or Valkur’s sailors, he is an aloof and uncaring being.

Kossuth: The firewalkers who revere the Lord of Fire espouse the cleansing properties of flame and its role in the renewal of life. Kossuth is most often appealed to by lay folk as they watch their homes burn to the ground. They find him entirely uninterested.

Seven Lost Gods: This term has been used to describe different groups of powerful entities at different times, sowing confusion even among learned sages. Some of these so-called “lost gods” might have been primordials. One group of beings that could fit this designation includes Dendar the Night Serpent, Kezef the Chaos Hound, and Borem of the Boiling Mud. "

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I think that the end of the Blood War bodes ill for the planes no matter how it gets ended. The victory of demons or devils frees them up to attend to schemes and destruction elsewhere. Even if the victor is left sorely weakened, on the scale of time that extraplanar creatures can operate on, it's only a temporary reprieve. If an outside force such the celestials, yugoloths, or what have you is victorious, it's only a matter of time before the Nine Hells or the Abyss corrupts them and we're back to having demons and devils.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, but this more comes down to ignoring that, and saying what you think would happen for each scenario.

I'm sure there are hundreds of variants of each, and that's kind of the point of this thread. It'd be great if people could post their versions of each scenario.

It's more about choosing which Asmodeus. The demons will act the same way regardless of origin.

The devils change a lot depending on what you pick.

Ahriman-Asmodeus wants to blow up the world and restart. He won't let the Blood War stop until he can. If the Devils win, it's GAME OVER.

The NV-Asmodeus is not completely enemies of the Celestials there. He's a god. The Blood War is more of an annoyance. Who wins means a lot less. If the Devils start to lose,the celestial and gods will come to their aid. The gods have bigger fish to fry.

And no one knows what the 3e Asmodeus and the 4e-FR Asmodeus wants not what their goals are.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Graz'zt is another factor in the Blood War, while clearly not the most powerful Demon Lord, he is the son of the Pale Night the Mother of Demons, and possibly Nyarlathotep. He seeks a peaceful end to the Blood War, and would work with third parties such as the Yugoloths.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I think that the end of the Blood War bodes ill for the planes no matter how it gets ended. The victory of demons or devils frees them up to attend to schemes and destruction elsewhere. Even if the victor is left sorely weakened, on the scale of time that extraplanar creatures can operate on, it's only a temporary reprieve. If an outside force such the celestials, yugoloths, or what have you is victorious, it's only a matter of time before the Nine Hells or the Abyss corrupts them and we're back to having demons and devils.

Oh, it's obviously going to be catastrophic, and in the worlds I'm creating for each scenario, the end of it is named "The Catastrophe"

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It's more about choosing which Asmodeus. The demons will act the same way regardless of origin.

The devils change a lot depending on what you pick.

Ahriman-Asmodeus wants to blow up the world and restart. He won't let the Blood War stop until he can. If the Devils win, it's GAME OVER.

The NV-Asmodeus is not completely enemies of the Celestials there. He's a god. The Blood War is more of an annoyance. Who wins means a lot less. If the Devils start to lose,the celestial and gods will come to their aid. The gods have bigger fish to fry.

And no one knows what the 3e Asmodeus and the 4e-FR Asmodeus wants not what their goals are.

Yeah, Asmodeus is probably the largest factor for variants to the events, but only if the Devils are on the loosing side.

 

[dave2008]

Yeah, Asmodeus is probably the largest factor for variants to the events, but only if the Devils are on the loosing side.

No, I think the point is different versions of big A have different goals (in the lore). So it definitely matters if it is on the wining side.

Also, it is relevant that the Archfiends and Demon Lords, in "5e canon," are only about as strong as lesser gods (MM pg 67). The greater gods appear to be much stronger (their avatars would be similar to lesser gods, pg 11 of the DMG). So perhaps on that note, what happens in the blood war doesn't alter much if the gods want to get directly involved.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I don't think of Celestials as being so foolish.

Regardless there a plenty of evil things that are not devils and demons. Including many evil gods that are more powerful than demons and devils. IMO, demons and devils are not the source of evil, but merely its most obvious manifestation or as you said its representation.

If you read my whole post, I pretty much say that Celestials are well aware that defeating all fiends would not truly end all evil, as something else would rise (or fall) to take their place.

Which is kind of the whole reason why Celestials wouldn't even try to win the Blood War; the perpetual stalemate is the most optimal outcome Celestials can hope for, as victory over the forces of evil is not possible.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Oh, it's obviously going to be catastrophic, and in the worlds I'm creating for each scenario, the end of it is named "The Catastrophe"

I'll add, there is little information on the end of the Blood War, but that it is prophesied that whenever the Crawling City (ruled by the General of Gehenna) enters the Blood War, it is said to be the decisive battle that ends it.

In truth, I think we perhaps should put more focus on the Yugoloths... their motives are in far more secrecy than the devils/demons. It's not even clear who, or what, the General of Gehenna is.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No, I think the point is different versions of big A have different goals (in the lore). So it definitely matters if it is on the wining side.

Also, it is relevant that the Archfiends and Demon Lords, in "5e canon," are only about as strong as lesser gods (MM pg 67). The greater gods appear to be much stronger (their avatars would be similar to lesser gods, pg 11 of the DMG). So perhaps on that note, what happens in the blood war doesn't alter much if the gods want to get directly involved.

As it should be.

But the gods can only do so much, because even if they are 10x as powerful as the most powerful demon, there are 12 demons working together to kill the god, and a horde of lesser demons to fight the god's angels.


But hell, in my worlds, the Blood War isn't a thing, and the fiends/demons (all fiends are just called demons or fiends, when referring to the creature type, there is no "a fiend for every alignment of evil" diagram) are either instead at war with the beings of the Far Realm, or are simply a simmering pot of danger that could end the world if things go really bad and the wrong seals get broken. (Sometimes its the Unseelie Fey who are holding back the tides of cosmic horror, but it's always a group that is either evil or is seen as a threat to Free Folk)