D&D (2024) What innovative elements from Baldur's Gate 3 would you like to see implimented in 2024 D&D?

[doctorbadwolf]

Weapon Properties for sure.
The amount of Magic items.
The over the top origins, need to be leaned into more, its especially jarring how bland the race design is now with floating +2/+1. "Oh, a Cantrip and some skills, wow."

While I like species ASIs, surely active abilities and proficiencies are more interesting than +2 Strength. I don’t see how that could be remotely controversial.

 

[Scribe]

While I like species ASIs, surely active abilities and proficiencies are more interesting than +2 Strength. I don’t see how that could be remotely controversial.

Its not one or the other though, or at least it shouldnt be.

MotM version of the Eladrin is at least decently interesting, the BG3 implementations of the core options feel super super dry to me.

I realize ASI is a lost cause at this point, but there was no replacing it, it was just taken away as a difference between options.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

After playing 4E for the full edition, alongside my experience with video games, I recognize that I do not want mundane "1x per encounter/short rest" weapon abilities, that have no reasonable narrative reason to have a limit, in the D&D TTRPG. It's fine for a video game like BG3 to allow a generic weapon give a small special attack once per short rest, but it makes no sense for a story-based TTRPG. At least with a Fighter's Superiority Dice, it represents a larger pool of effort that dwindles when used, and that pool is what recovers on a short rest.

But being able to use a Mace to hit with a "Concussive Smash" only once, ever, until I take an official short rest; and also being able to swap to use a Battle Axe to "Cleave" only once, ever, until I take that same official short rest, how does that limitation make sense? Why can't I do it at will, or once per opponent, at least?

I'm not saying it couldn't be balanced in design, but for me, the limitations need to withstand the light scrutiny of verisimilitude.

Note that I don't have the same problem if it were a magical limitation, and I don't have the same problem if it were at-will like Weapon Mastery abilities.

 

[Reynard]

After playing 4E for the full edition, alongside my experience with video games, I recognize that I do not want mundane "1x per encounter/short rest" weapon abilities, that have no reasonable narrative reason to have a limit, in the D&D TTRPG. It's fine for a video game like BG3 to allow a generic weapon give a small special attack once per short rest, but it makes no sense for a story-based TTRPG. At least with a Fighter's Superiority Dice, it represents a larger pool of effort that dwindles when used, and that pool is what recovers on a short rest.

But being able to use a Mace to hit with a "Concussive Smash" only once, ever, until I take an official short rest; and also being able to swap to use a Battle Axe to "Cleave" only once, ever, until I take that same official short rest, how does that limitation make sense? Why can't I do it at will, or once per opponent, at least?

I'm not saying it couldn't be balanced in design, but for me, the limitations need to withstand the light scrutiny of verisimilitude.

Note that I don't have the same problem if it were a magical limitation, and I don't have the same problem if it were at-will like Weapon Mastery abilities.

Emphasis mine.

But that is exactly what it is. It isn't a function of the weapon per se, but proficiency with the weapon.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Its not one or the other though, or at least it shouldnt be.

Sure. To be clear, I wasn’t trying to suggest it is.

MotM version of the Eladrin is at least decently interesting, the BG3 implementations of the core options feel super super dry to me.

I realize ASI is a lost cause at this point, but there was no replacing it, it was just taken away as a difference between options.

I agree. My comment wasn’t speaking on anything but what it explicitly spoke on. That is, that I’m surprised you find active abilities and proficiencies to be dramatically less interesting than +2 Strength.

I do think that some species should get an extra feature that exhibits the natural proclivity of thier species toward certain physiology, like Mountain Dwarves could get powerful build.

 

[Vaalingrade]

After playing 4E for the full edition, alongside my experience with video games, I recognize that I do not want mundane "1x per encounter/short rest" weapon abilities, that have no reasonable narrative reason to have a limit, in the D&D TTRPG.

Narrative is the reason.

The limit is based on the narrative, not on cooldowns. You know, the things them scary vidya games use.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

After playing 4E for the full edition, alongside my experience with video games, I recognize that I do not want mundane "1x per encounter/short rest" weapon abilities, that have no reasonable narrative reason to have a limit, in the D&D TTRPG. It's fine for a video game like BG3 to allow a generic weapon give a small special attack once per short rest, but it makes no sense for a story-based TTRPG. At least with a Fighter's Superiority Dice, it represents a larger pool of effort that dwindles when used, and that pool is what recovers on a short rest.

But being able to use a Mace to hit with a "Concussive Smash" only once, ever, until I take an official short rest; and also being able to swap to use a Battle Axe to "Cleave" only once, ever, until I take that same official short rest, how does that limitation make sense? Why can't I do it at will, or once per opponent, at least?

I'm not saying it couldn't be balanced in design, but for me, the limitations need to withstand the light scrutiny of verisimilitude.

Note that I don't have the same problem if it were a magical limitation, and I don't have the same problem if it were at-will like Weapon Mastery abilities.

Two solutions.

1. Give it a keyword in the name of it like Mastery Technique, and put a limit on how often you can perform a Mastery Technique.

2. Bring back per encounter design, and you can only do a mastery move once. You get it back when the encounter ends, or whatever. Or do it like 1, but it’s more like a mix of legendary saves and actions, where you have a supply of mastery techniques per encounter, which you can use to do any mastery technique you know.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Emphasis mine.

But that is exactly what it is. It isn't a function of the weapon per se, but proficiency with the weapon.

But it is still a video game cooldown for a mundane action that has no legitimate reason [in-world] to be limited.

Ranger: I sneak up on the guard, and because I am proficient with my mace, I attempt to "Concussively Smash" him, trying to daze him. I hit with an 18 and deal 10 damage.
DM: Great! He's dead.
Ranger: I spend a few minutes looting him and checking out the guard station.
DM: He has some Thayan gold, which may be evidence of possible corruption. Otherwise there is nothing much of note. Suddenly another guard opens the door and immediately moves to engage you when he sees you.
Ranger: Well, it worked last time, so I attempt to "Concussively Smash" him as well.
DM: Sorry, you already did that. Can't do it again until you take a short rest.
Ranger: It's been a minute, and he doesn't know that I can't do that maneuver. I really can't? Ugh. Can I swap to my spear and use its special Pierce ability?
DM: Sure. But you only get to use it once before you need a short rest as well.

Makes. No. Sense.

And @Vaalingrade, when you mention "narratively," that is what makes Superiority Dice work in my mind. There is a narrative pool of energy that explains why you can't use it them all the time. Weapon proficiency attack cooldowns in BG3 don't have a narrative explanation, especially porting them to a TTRPG format. It is purely a video gamist construct.

And @doctorbadwolf, we're not going back to 4E Encounter Power design. And I'm glad. Fighters using the narrative Encounter power "Come and Get It" and the enemy cannot resist being "pulled" in before they are attacked? Nope. And even after the errata, it became an attack vs. Will and if successful that is when you pulled them in, and the damage was automatic, despite their armor? Didn't make sense either way.

Some things work better as narrative, or gamist, or simulationist mechanic styles, but not everything works using just any mechanic style.

 

[Scribe]

I mean why even limit it? If Casters get to cantrip forever, so what if a Fighter is proficient with x weapon, it gains a bonus effect.

If its OP (and I doubt it highly) then just say you reduce the damage, or you get a bonus to hit for 'just a normal swing'. Simple stuff.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Two solutions.

1. Give it a keyword in the name of it like Mastery Technique, and put a limit on how often you can perform a Mastery Technique.

That could totally work in 5E if it was included as greater part of the Weapon Mastery system, built in for all characters. But you'd have to determine how often you can use such a maneruver between short rests, and even then it overlaps the narrative design space for the Fighter's Superiority Dice, exactly. Why isn't it just that?