D&D 5E What is +1 Strength worth?

[Minigiant]

So let me get this straight. D&D 5E is the most successful version of any TTRPG ever, but "people" don't like it? Who are these people going "this is terrible, you really need to try it and join my Thursday game!"

What part of people might like less than 100% of an edition do fans not understand?

I am a sports fan. I like my favorite teams but BOY CAN I RANT on players and staff on my teams I am not fans of.

D&D fans love 5e. However a significantly large percentage of fans wish it weren't. designed for stereotypes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

D&D fans love 5e. However a significantly large percentage of fans wish it weren't. designed for stereotypes.

Sure. That’s why I don’t like the current homogenisation of characters where any deviation in ability scores is seen as unacceptable.

 

[Lyxen]

What part of people might like less than 100% of an edition do fans not understand?

None, but it's not what you are saying.

I am a sports fan. I like my favorite teams but BOY CAN I RANT on players and staff on my teams I am not fans of.

But you still like sports.

D&D fans love 5e. However a significantly large percentage of fans wish it weren't. designed for stereotypes.

Proof ?

 

[Oofta]

What part of people might like less than 100% of an edition do fans not understand?

I am a sports fan. I like my favorite teams but BOY CAN I RANT on players and staff on my teams I am not fans of.

D&D fans love 5e. However a significantly large percentage of fans wish it weren't. designed for stereotypes.

Okay. No game is perfect. There are some rules I don't care for. Hate? Hate leads to the dark side...wait...that's not quite right.

I dislike some aspects of D&D. Hate those aspects? Not really. I accept that the game isn't perfect because nothing is. Big difference.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

the only problem I have is 'when all else is equal'

does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 con?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 dex?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 wis?
(I will leave Int and Cha out of the equation.)

 

[Bill Zebub]

Why were the two original fighters built with their only difference being strength?
Since there's no way actual characters would be built with just a single attribute point being different this white room exercise doesn't apply to reality. It did inspire conversation though, so I guess that's alright

It's pure white room, of course. But the point is to isolate one variable in order to evaluate it. If the fighters have 5 differences, rather than 1, then you don't know which of those 5 differences led to the outcome.

 

[Lyxen]

the only problem I have is 'when all else is equal'

does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 con?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 dex?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 wis?
(I will leave Int and Cha out of the equation.)

You should not. A character is not his stats, and NO-ONE (except some types of "challenge" DMs and powergamers that I would not care to play with personally) should criticise your character for being what he is, a character who is not perfect, not one-dimensional, not fully optimised. Just play what you want to play.

 

[bedir than]

It's pure white room, of course. But the point is to isolate one variable in order to evaluate it. If the fighters have 5 differences, rather than 1, then you don't know which of those 5 differences led to the outcome.

But it's impossible for two characters to have one one attribute point of difference.
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin is more relevant to gameplay

 

[Bill Zebub]

the only problem I have is 'when all else is equal'

does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 con?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 dex?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 wis?
(I will leave Int and Cha out of the equation.)

That's much harder to model, unless you have an estimate for how often the need for those other stats comes up. It's true that the worse you are at something, the more benefit you get from the +1. So if you think you're going to face a lot of fear checks, or even if it's just really important to your character concept that you succeed at those fear checks, then it makes sense to invest in Wis.

The point of my sim wasn't to argue that Str is better than the other attributes. I just wanted to add some data to the argument about the impact of getting a 16 in your primary stat.

 

[Bill Zebub]

But it's impossible for two characters to have one one attribute point of difference.
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin is more relevant to gameplay

Well, it's not impossible if you roll.

But bear in mind I have left most of the character...the bits that won't affect the sim...out of the model.

So let's say I'm rolling up a character, and I have two variants in front of me (or in my mind). They are perfectly identical in every way, except that one has an extra point of Str, and the other has an extra point of Cha. Since I'm picturing my fighter being the sort to solve problems with a sword, but maybe sometimes he'll try to Intimidate, and so I kinda want that 12 Cha, I have the question, "How much does difference does that little measly +1 actually make?"

The answer happens to be "a lot", but there are simpler ways of solving it:*

- "Well, however much difference it is, I'm probably going to make a LOT more attack rolls than intimidation rolls, so Str is more useful."
- "I don't really care. I just want 12 Cha."

Both are totally valid.




*Those other, simpler approaches don't give me an excuse to write code, however.