What is 3.0 & 3.5 missing that previous editions had?

[Nifelhein]

I think it is too much designed to make the characters dependent on their items, it is too easy to create magical items, that the clerics are way too close, even with the domain spells, and also, that the 3rd Ed. or 3.5, for that matter, create an even greater difference than the previous editions.

That said, I love it.. more than all the previous ones, although that nostalgia is always around, specially when you got to remember your old characters...

 

[Gundark]

Don't women spoil our RPG lives ! Before I started dating I played so much more...

yeah, so does work, bills, university, etc.....life suks

 

[JesterPoet]

You all know the type and they typically metagame. They'll analyze what level spellcasters are by the number of dice you roll for a Magic Missile attack or Fireball and then keep track of how much damage said caster has taken. The instant the caster has taken more hit point damage than their "calculation" has allowed for then they'll "helpfully" point it out to the DM and the rest of the players. If the DM doesn't take care of it to their advantage or at least spit out a reason for it then they'll get ticked off and sulk for the rest of the game.

That would happen ONE time in my game, and then it would never happen again.

There's two things I don't allow in my games. Players who question the final word of the GM, and players who show up dressed like hobbits.

 

[Gothmog]

But there was a feel and attitude in the old editions that I occasionally miss in 3E. The best example of it, as someone else mentioned, was the art. As far as I'm concerned, no suit of spike-covered semi-punk armor is ever going to be nearly as evocative as the classic knight in plate. But leaving aside the details of the pictures, I miss the old style. I don't like the trend toward comic-book-style art. When it comes to fantasy RPG artwork, I prefer my colors painted, and I prefer most of the art be black and white.

Yes, I said I prefer B&W most of the time. When done well, it can actually be more evocative.

I miss art that told a story or presented a scene, rather than character portraits. With the efreet on the coer of the old DMG, with the City of Brass in the background--or with the picture of Emirikol the Chaotic riding through some hapless town--you knew there was a story there somewhere.

Preach it Mouseferatu. I agree 100%. The new art is not compelling and is too cartoony. And when I see a sexy halfling in form-fitting leathers, or an elf goth-punk in the D&D books now it pains me to think that art is in a D&D book. The B&W artwork of people like David Griffith, Brian LeBlanc, or Tyler Walpole DOES has tons of character, atmopshere, and the feel I have always associated with D&D, and I'd much prefer their stuff in the core books than the overstylized crap of WAR or Lockwood.

Overall 3E is a better system. Mechanically, not a lot is different. Sure, we call them Reflex saves now, and they are easier to handle, but its basically the same as the old Save vs. Petrification. THAC0 and BAB are identical mathematical progressions, just now its easier to use. Feats and Skills are a good idea, although they can be taken to extremes now.

What 3E is missing to me is the more organic nature of character development that previous editions had. Now, there are so many feats, skills, and PrCs that player have to start choosing early if they want to qualify for something later. That kinda kills a lot of the character development that can occur through RPing and experience in a campaign, since pidgeonholing a character into a narrow concept from the beginning is inherently limiting.

A couple other things:

1. Customizable priests- previous posters have pointed this out, and the generic combat cleric is a huge regression. Domains are much less versatile and interesting than Spheres were.

2. Descriptions about monester ecology and culture. Sure, they each took up a page in 2E, but it was worth it for the sheer amount of detail you got.

3. Characters are too dependent on items in 3E.

 

[Bihor]

Two things I miss from 2e:

-Creating instant villans. I used to DM with minimum of préparation, Basic plot two or three act before the BBEG. I could open the monster manual and had a random encounter. With 3e in takes more time to prepare the game.
Now you have to much option. Too much option is not bad, I'm just lasy.

-The racial trait where not just numbers, there was rollplaying traits too.
Their was no ECL. To play a giant, having to pay 4 time the price of your equipment, not be able to enter every where, and be realy stupid for me there where big drawbacks.
I know that some will min/max their charater, some did in my games, but a DM with imagination can use drawbacks to is adventage.

 

[JesterPoet]

Ah yeah... just thought about this... I miss the extensive lists of nonweapon proficiencies from 2e.

 

[Henry]

*Henry throws his Hobbit costume inthe closet and slams the door quickly*

Sorry JesterPoet -- I, um, er, I have something to do this week - I won't be coming over anytime soon...



As for designing dungeons all day, I had the summer of my High School Senior year and all of Freshman College to design and playtest about 60% of my custom campaign world - I coasted through the Freshman classes due to their simplicity, and spent all of my other waking hours designing and playing. When my love of my life (now my wife) came into the picture, I totally reorganized my life, and gaming took a back seat for about 3 years.

 

[Dark Jezter]

EDIT: Deleted.

 

[francisca]

Speaking as someone still playing 1E and DMing 3.5-ish, I dunno that 3.XE is lacking something that the old game had. They're just different. Not as stark of a difference between the old editions and say, GURPS, but different enough that I don't view 1E and 3E as the same game.

Sure, I like the fact that I could knock out an NPC is my head in about 30 seconds with the old rules. I used to chalk it up to familiarity, but after playing 3.X for a while, I've come to the conclusion that it really does take longer to generate an NPC of any level with 3.X.

I like the old art better. I liked the mix of the +1 backscratcher and Emiricol.

But nostalgia aside, I'm glad I get to sit around a table once in a while, sling dice, go to strange exotic places, meet wildly interesting people and creatures, then kill them and take their stuff. (Or enable it as a DM.)

It's the escapism and hanging about with friends in a realm of fantasy that I enjoy. Rules are just a framework for arbitration. (And no, I don't like LARPs or diceless. I like game mechanics and dice.)

So in the end, while I get nostalgic for the old days, I don't think one edition has anything over the other. I think the nostalgia is more about the days when I didn't have much responsibility and could goof off a lot more. Just so happens I was playing 1E at the time. I wonder if today's 13 year olds will feel the same about 3.5 10 or 20 years from now?

 

[Bihor]

I still have nightmares about THAC0, sometimes