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What is a "Light" RPG? What is a "Crunchy" RPG?

pemerton

Legend
You have not provided enough information.

1. Did you declare they did not need to make any die rolls to do so? Or declare a particular set of rolls was required to do so without some sort of consequence?
You've played MHRP, haven't you? So you know what the rules are (pages OM6, OM18, OM55):

WHEN TO ROLL THE DICE
When you roll the dice, the Watcher or another player rolls their dice in response to see how things work out. Any time
there’s a meaningful choice to make, you can bring out the dice. Not every situation needs you to “roll the bones,” however. Use the following lists as a guide for when dice are appropriate.

Roll the dice when…
*You’re not sure if your hero will succeed or fail.
*You want to try something that’s bold, challenging, or dangerous.
*You want to oppose, challenge, or thwart another character.
*You want to show off your hero’s super-powers or cool abilities.

Don’t roll the dice when…
*The outcome isn’t an interesting part of the story.
*There’s no risk, challenge, or threat involved.
*The only outcome of either success or failure is that nothing happens.
*There’s nothing or nobody to stop your hero from doing something.
*The situation is outside your hero’s ability to change.

. . .

THE DOOM POOL AS OPPOSITION
The doom pool stands in as the opposition dice pool for anything the heroes want to try that‘s important enough to break out the dice but for which no opposing characters are present. Natural forces, sheer luck, that growing sense of dramatic tension - the doom pool acts as a generic pool of opposition when the situation demands it.

. . .

Automatic Success
If you have a power that might be useful in eliminating an asset, complication, or some other trait, you might be able to forego the roll entirely and just spend 1 PP to succeed automatically. This works the same way heroes with a Stamina power trait can spend 1 PP to eliminate stress. Most of the time, this only works when your hero has either the time or the freedom to do this without interference, and the Watcher should already have established that you’d need to roll the dice as opposed to simply letting you get what you want.​

Bobby is on a date with one of the B.A.D girls (I can't remember now which of Black Mamba, Asp or Diamondback), in Washington DC. Bobby's player declares that he is going to freeze the Reflecting Pool. This is Bobby showing off his cool abilities. Given that he has Ice Mastery, freezing the reflecting pool is within his ability to change (this does not exceed the capacity to generate city-wide effects by freezing water). Given that no character is opposing the attempt, I as GM roll the Doom Pool as opposition. (The possibility of spending a PP for automatic success was not canvassed, as best I recall.)

There is no need for any house rule. And there is no need for damage types. There is just adjudication of the declared action by reference to (i) fiction (ie the Reflecting Pool is water that can be frozen) and (ii) thematic significance (ie here is Bobby showing off his cool abilities).

2. Did it occur more than once?

<snip>

If it was a one-off, however, it tells them nothing beyond what you're doing in this one isolated situation. That doesn't do anything to set people on the same page unless they all assume you'll do the same thing if something like it comes up again, in which case, again, its functioned as a house convention.
The freezing of the Reflecting Pool has not come up again. (Would anyone expect it to?) If it did, maybe no roll would be called for, because it would not on this occasion count as showing off cool abilities (that had already been done, and doing it a second time isn't really showing off any more).

Because by all evidence, you have indeed had house rules. You're just resistant to calling them that.

<snip>

I think the problem is you're working with an extremely narrow definition of house rule. House rules are the same as group conventions, and I have no evidence at all that any group with any sense of consistency doesn't have that--in fact, I don't believe it is, indeed, possible.
What is the mooted house rule? I applied the actual, written rules. (Which I've quoted, in this and previous posts.) And - to reiterate - determining that the Reflecting Pool is water that might be frozen by an ability to create city-wide ice/cold effects is not a house rule. Any more than noting that (say) an elephant is big enough to block a narrow road is a house rule. Or that one can knock on a door to create noise is a house rule.
 

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Thomas Shey

Legend
What is the mooted house rule? I applied the actual, written rules. (Which I've quoted, in this and previous posts.) And - to reiterate - determining that the Reflecting Pool is water that might be frozen by an ability to create city-wide ice/cold effects is not a house rule. Any more than noting that (say) an elephant is big enough to block a narrow road is a house rule. Or that one can knock on a door to create noise is a house rule.

Again, you've ignored that the freezing water was not where the rule applied; it was deciding the roll, lack of same, or consequences for them skating across it. You've either established how that's done, or you've decided that's irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, that's either a convention or a lack of concern for consistency.

Do I need to explain this a third or fourth time?
 

pemerton

Legend
Again, you've ignored that the freezing water was not where the rule applied; it was deciding the roll, lack of same, or consequences for them skating across it. You've either established how that's done, or you've decided that's irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, that's either a convention or a lack of concern for consistency.

Do I need to explain this a third or fourth time?
Skating is resolved exactly the same way. No house rule is required.

EDIT to add:

Upthread, you posted this:
As I've said, I think that's still a set of house rules. The moment you have an agreement about the practical effects of a game element that is followed in any sort of consistent fashion, that's a house rule (if not a game rule).
I take it you now accept that no house rule is required to establish the "practical effect" of the "game element" Ice Mastery.

As I'm posting about something that happened 7 years ago, I don't recall all the details. But given what I do recall, it is possible that the freezing of the Reflecting Pool, and the skating were one and the same resolution, to impose a "Smitten by Bobby" or similar sort of complication on the B.A.D. girl. This would have also factored in Bobby's Psych expertise.

Again, no house rule is needed to establish that people can skate on frozen water, nor that it can (sometimes) be romantic. I mean, it's something I've actually done in real life, and I'm (i) clumsy and (ii) an inhabitant of a largely desert country!
 
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pemerton

Legend
So you do want me to go around it a third or fourth time?
I just don't know what you think the house rule is. In my post just upthread I say something about the skating as it may have happened in play (based on conjectural recollection of 7 years ago). No house rules were required or applied.

Or, as an alternative: suppose that someone declares that their character skates fast enough or skilfully enough to get some benefit (say, Impressive Skating as an asset to support some sort of socially-oriented action, or Skate-by Attack as an asset to support some sort of attack action, or Skating Boost as an asset to help an ally, an on-ice version of the fastball special): then a roll would be made, again against the Doom Pool, with the character's Speed (OM78: "Movement powers confer the ability to move at greater than human speed. Speed is ground or surface travel) and/or Reflexes (OM80: "The hero has a greater response time, physical agility, and aim than an average human"), as chosen by the player, and also their Acrobatics (OM98: "You’ve had training in leaping, jumping, contorting, and dodging out of the way. You’ve got a great sense of balance"), going into their pool.

As I've said above: it is not a house rule that, in classic D&D, knocking on a door creates noise. And likewise in the skating examples, it's not a house rule that skating involves agility and balance; nor that skating quickly is one way to manifest a power to move at greater than human speed; nor that skilful skating or romantic skating might make someone find a person appealing or impressive.

This is why I say that I don't understand what the house rule is supposed to be. All this is just following the rules of the game, as they apply to the shared fiction.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
I just don't know what you think the house rule is. In my post just upthread I say something about the skating as it may have happened in play (based on conjectural recollection of 7 years ago). No house rules were required or applied.

And I've explained it multiple times now. I don't see as doing it again is going to usefully change this conversation.
 

pemerton

Legend
And I've explained it multiple times now. I don't see as doing it again is going to usefully change this conversation.
You posted this assertion:
Now, if someone wants to walk across that frozen water--what does that mean? I'll argue that those decisions are, indeed, house rules.
What's the actual house rule?

I've described some actual and some hypothetical scenarios in MHRP that involve skating on the Reflecting Pool that Bobby Drake froze. And you've not actually told me what the house rule is.

I'm not unfamiliar with house rules. In my first session of Classic Traveller in about 30 years, in 2017, I inveed a little rule for using Admin skill to recruit a Broker. And as per the advice in Book 1, I made a note of it in my rules summary document.

But there is no house rule in the MHRP case. There's just the application of the actual rules, set out in the OM.
 



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