What Is an Experience Point Worth?

It seems like a simple question, but the way you answer it may, in effect, determine the metaphysics of your game. Many RPGs use some sort of "experience point" system to model growth and learning. The progenitor of this idea is, of course, Dungeons & Dragons; the Experience Point (XP) system has been a core feature of the game from the beginning.

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Yet what exactly an experience point is remains unclear.

Think about it: can anyone earn an XP under the right circumstances? Or must one possess a class? If so, what qualifies an individual for a class? The 1st-edition Dungeon Master’s Guide specifies that henchmen earn 50 percent of the group’s XP award. In other words, they get a full share awarded, but then only "collect" half the share. Where does the other half go? Did it ever exist in the first place?

These esoteric questions were highlighted for me recently when I recreated a 20-year-old D&D character from memory for a new campaign I’m playing in. All I could remember of this character from my high school days was her race and class (half-elf Bladesinger, because I liked the cheese, apparently) and that the campaign fizzled out after only a handful of sessions. If I made it to level 2 back then, I couldn’t rightly say.

I asked my Dungeon Master (DM)—the same fellow who had run the original game for me back in the days of the Clinton administration—whether I could start a level ahead, or at least with a randomly-determined amount of XP (say, 200+2D100). Being the stern taskmaster that he is, he shot down both suggestions, saying instead that I’d be starting at 0 XP and at level 1, just like the rest of the party. As justification, he said that my character had amassed 0 XP for this campaign.

As the character probably only had a few hundred XP to her name to begin with, I let the matter slide. But it did get me thinking: do Experience Points only exist within the context of individual campaigns? Was my DM onto something?

This sort of thinking can in turn lead down quite a rabbit hole. Are classes themselves an arbitrary construct? Do they exist solely for players, or are non-player characters (NPCs) also capable of possessing classes and levels? Different editions of D&D have presented different interpretations of this question, from essentially statting up all NPCs as monsters, with their own boutique abilities (as in the earliest iterations of the game), to granting NPCs levels in "non-adventuring classes" (the famous 20th-level Commoner of 3rd-edition days).

The current edition of D&D has come back around to limiting classes and XP awards to player-characters only—which brings us back to our original question: are Experience Points, like character classes, meant to function solely as an abstract game mechanic, or are they an objective force within the game world? How do you, the reader at home, treat XP in your campaigns?

contributed by David Larkins

 

[Campbell]

I have a deep and abiding for specific and targeted XP like you see in games like Apocalypse World and Blades in the Dark. I think it is important to keep a game's reward structure transparent and easy to understand so players know the specific goals they should be shooting for in their play.

One of the issues I have with games like D&D is the way larger numbers of experience points and lack of knowledge of how many a given encounter, milestone, etc. is worth makes it almost impossible to effectively reason about and make informed decisions.

 

[Lanefan]

Think about it: can anyone earn an XP under the right circumstances? Or must one possess a class? If so, what qualifies an individual for a class?

These questions tie together neatly. Yes, anyone can earn xp. The type of activities done to earn said xp is going to determine what class you become. And what qualifies you for the class* is the earning of said xp - in other words, one goes hand in hand with the other.

* - in games with things like stat requirements to be in a class, you need those too.

The 1st-edition Dungeon Master’s Guide specifies that henchmen earn 50 percent of the group’s XP award. In other words, they get a full share awarded, but then only "collect" half the share. Where does the other half go? Did it ever exist in the first place?

Misinterpretation. The henches default to half xp because it's assumed they're only contributing half as much to proceedings as a full party member. Whether that assumption is correct or not is wide open for debate, but that's the rationale. No xp "disappear" anywhere.

These esoteric questions were highlighted for me recently when I recreated a 20-year-old D&D character from memory for a new campaign I’m playing in. All I could remember of this character from my high school days was her race and class (half-elf Bladesinger, because I liked the cheese, apparently) and that the campaign fizzled out after only a handful of sessions. If I made it to level 2 back then, I couldn’t rightly say.

I asked my Dungeon Master (DM)—the same fellow who had run the original game for me back in the days of the Clinton administration—whether I could start a level ahead, or at least with a randomly-determined amount of XP (say, 200+2D100). Being the stern taskmaster that he is, he shot down both suggestions, saying instead that I’d be starting at 0 XP and at level 1, just like the rest of the party. As justification, he said that my character had amassed 0 XP for this campaign.

A better justification would have been that as everyone else is starting at 0 xp then so will you, in the interests of fairness etc.

As the character probably only had a few hundred XP to her name to begin with, I let the matter slide. But it did get me thinking: do Experience Points only exist within the context of individual campaigns? Was my DM onto something?

Xp exist within a campaign as a measure of character advancement and improvement. If multiple campaigns are linked in other ways e.g. two or more DMs have decided their worlds share a common universe, then xp become portable across those campaigns along with the characters. But if someone comes to me and says "I'll play in your game, I've got this character from Bob's game I can run" my response will be something like "Who's Bob? I don't know anything about his game - does it even use the same system as mine? How about you roll up something new using this game's system, just like everyone else is doing. You can always use the same name, characterization, and so forth from your previous version if you like, just not its mechanics and-or levels."

This sort of thinking can in turn lead down quite a rabbit hole. Are classes themselves an arbitrary construct? Do they exist solely for players, or are non-player characters (NPCs) also capable of possessing classes and levels? Different editions of D&D have presented different interpretations of this question, from essentially statting up all NPCs as monsters, with their own boutique abilities (as in the earliest iterations of the game), to granting NPCs levels in "non-adventuring classes" (the famous 20th-level Commoner of 3rd-edition days).

I certainly think NPCs can have classes and levels just like PCs...if not, where are the replacement PCs going to come from when the current lot get killed?

The current edition of D&D has come back around to limiting classes and XP awards to player-characters only...

Which I personally think is a bad idea

...—which brings us back to our original question: are Experience Points, like character classes, meant to function solely as an abstract game mechanic, or are they an objective force within the game world? How do you, the reader at home, treat XP in your campaigns?

Xp are, as I said above, a measure of character advancement - a reward, if you will. They are earned by the characters on an individual basis, based on what said characters do or don't do in the game. They are also earned in a similar manner by NPCs when said NPCs do things that merit such, though obviously not tracked nearly as closely as PC xp are.

And notice I keep saying xp are a character reward. They are not intended as a player reward, nor as a player punishment. I shudder when I hear or read about DMs who give xp to a character when its player brings snacks to the game or does up an elaborate backstory, and I also shudder every time I hear or read about DMs who don't give xp to a character for a session's worth of adventuring with the party just because its player didn't make it to the game.

I also really disliked the 3e idea of using xp as currency. Intentionally erasing some of your memories in order to create a magic item just doesn't make any sense at all. That said, I've no problem with the malicious erasure of some of a character's memories and theft of a bit of its soul that was old-school level loss.

One way to look at it is look at how a PC becomes an NPC when they become a lich or "turn evil" (depending on the campaign). They stop growing and stop being able to tap into that quality that makes them great. Greatness fuel might be one way to look at it.

I don't know where to start with this. Who says that a character who turns evil stops earning xp? (and who says it has to become an NPC?) What's to stop a lich from continuing to slowly gain xp and levels over the years? It's not like it won't have the time...

Lan-"has anyone ever come up with a workable mechanic for how level-based skills and abilities (and xp?) erode after a character has been retired for a long time"-efan

 

[jmucchiello]

Lan-"has anyone ever come up with a workable mechanic for how level-based skills and abilities (and xp?) erode after a character has been retired for a long time"-efan

Older D&D systems had rules for losing ability scores as you age. If those systems had also had ability score based skills then the mechanic would already have existed. But you can always import those rules into a more modern version of D&D.

In 5E specifically, you could also tie the proficiency bonus to aging. So that all things one is good at erodes as you age. So if getting to middle age is a flat -1 to str/dex/con/pb, old is -2 to str/dex/con/pb, and venerable is -3 to str/dex/con/pb. All of your physical skills will end up in the tank when your characters are in the decembers of their lives.

 

[Sunseeker]

Xp exist within a campaign as a measure of character advancement and improvement. If multiple campaigns are linked in other ways e.g. two or more DMs have decided their worlds share a common universe, then xp become portable across those campaigns along with the characters. But if someone comes to me and says "I'll play in your game, I've got this character from Bob's game I can run" my response will be something like "Who's Bob? I don't know anything about his game - does it even use the same system as mine? How about you roll up something new using this game's system, just like everyone else is doing. You can always use the same name, characterization, and so forth from your previous version if you like, just not its mechanics and-or levels."

I had planned to comment on this part of the OP as well, but didn't get around to it.

I've played the same character in 4 separate D&D campaigns. Two 4E games, one 3.5 game and one 5E game, all my same tiefling paladin. But, while they share a similar backstory and similar characterization they are unique incarnations of the character. They gained XP separately, they had different experiences, they grew in different directions and they were all enjoyable unique experiences, which to some degree I have combined for my own personal writings into a greater whole character.

But I've experienced people seeking to bring characters from other campaigns in before, worse than asking for a smattering of XP, no more than one often gets for writing a good backstory, they've asked for whole levels, even very high levels, with strange and spectacular benefits.

Then these people have often remade their characters, much to their disappointment.

There is certainly value in remaking a character if you're willing to treat it like a new experience. I wouldn't place much value on trying to make a clone.

 

[Lanefan]

Older D&D systems had rules for losing ability scores as you age. If those systems had also had ability score based skills then the mechanic would already have existed. But you can always import those rules into a more modern version of D&D.

In 5E specifically, you could also tie the proficiency bonus to aging. So that all things one is good at erodes as you age. So if getting to middle age is a flat -1 to str/dex/con/pb, old is -2 to str/dex/con/pb, and venerable is -3 to str/dex/con/pb. All of your physical skills will end up in the tank when your characters are in the decembers of their lives.

That works for skills, you're quite right.

But levels?

It comes down to this: if Richard had got up to 10th-level Fighter at the peak of his 4-year adventuring career and then retired at age 27 to open a pub (because all retired characters open a pub; it's part of the Code, don't'cha know) how long does it take for that 10th level to in effect become 9th, or 6th, or fade away to nothing? Corollary question: how much training and practice does Richard need to put in to slow or prevent this decay, should he so desire?

Lanefan

 

[jmucchiello]

That works for skills, you're quite right.

But levels?

It comes down to this: if Richard had got up to 10th-level Fighter at the peak of his 4-year adventuring career and then retired at age 27 to open a pub (because all retired characters open a pub; it's part of the Code, don't'cha know) how long does it take for that 10th level to in effect become 9th, or 6th, or fade away to nothing? Corollary question: how much training and practice does Richard need to put in to slow or prevent this decay, should he so desire?

Lanefan

Why would levels fade? Aging doesn't negate experience. It reduces ability. Ability scores, skills, and proficiency bonus penalties over time would reduce effectiveness. A wizard who doesn't hang out in dungeons is going to lose the ability to cast fireball because he drops from level 5 to level 4? I don't get it.

 

[Lanefan]

Why would levels fade? Aging doesn't negate experience. It reduces ability. Ability scores, skills, and proficiency bonus penalties over time would reduce effectiveness. A wizard who doesn't hang out in dungeons is going to lose the ability to cast fireball because he drops from level 5 to level 4?

Exactly. If she doesn't cast fireball once in a while - or even look at her old spellbook - she's eventually over the years going to forget how. (she could learn again, of course, but that's a different issue) How does this work mechanically?

Just like a Fighter who spends all his time these days tending bar and washing glasses, 5 years later - 10 years later? 15 years later? - can he still pick up a sword and use it just like he did when last in the field? I say no, as by then he's badly out of practice; and have been trying for years to come up with some sort of mechanics system to codify this. No success, so every now and then I throw the question out there to see if anyone else has any bright ideas.

Lanefan

 

[jmucchiello]

I suspect it doesn't exist because no one wants it to exist, aside from you. After all, this game is fantasy. Getting old is just a bummer that gets in the way of having fun.

IIRC, GURPS is all about realism and its aging effects are kinda nasty as you get older.

 

[Jhaelen]

Getting old is just a bummer that gets in the way of having fun.

That clearly depends on the RPG system (or setting).
E.g. in Ars Magica it's a brilliant source for stories. Magi brewing Longevity potions to extend their natural life span is a default assumption since aging eventually reduces stats and results in negative afflictions. It gets increasingly hard to successfully create these potions, as each new one must be more powerful than the previous one. Also, Magi start to become increasingly 'magical' as soon as they start using these potions. Thus they may be able to prevent a natural death only to suffer from increasingly long 'Twilight episodes', i.e. their minds are temporarily sucked into the Magic realm, until it becomes a permanent condition.

There are a number of alternatives to Longevity potions (e.g. Lichdom), but all of them come with their own complications. Searching for a new and better way to extend life can easily become the focus for an entire campaign.

 

[jmucchiello]

I don't want to sidetrack the original topic with my tongue-in-cheek bummer comment. But how many people run Ars Magica (or any campaign in any RPG) long enough that getting old matters.

In D&D throughout the editions, there's been the issue of a handful of people who meet in a tavern in year 1002 rising meteorically to level 23 by year 1004 and then there's a world shattering event that they prevent and they retire. If the campaign world is reused they become the Elminster of the setting, a background figure of infinite renown. But the players no long give those characters much agency. They're just window dressing.

I'm sure there are exceptions to the 2 year span and some DMs manage to make it take longer to get to high level. But does anyone make it take 50 or more years? I don't see many 70 year old characters running around as murder hobos. (That could be an interesting campaign. A village is attacked and only the old folk survive. They band together to defeats the invading orcs who kidnapped their adult children as slaves. Eventually the band of seniors find themselves fighting against a demon cult and yada yada yada.)