D&D General What *is* D&D? (mild movie spoilers)

[Morrus]

One thing which struck me when I watched the D&D movie (and booted up Baldur's Gate 3) is how D&D's own internal fiction has evolved over the years. More and more, D&D has become its own genre rather than one which seeks to emulate existing fantasy literature. It's not a boiling pot of Tolkien, Vance, Howard, Leiber, and all the other Appendix-N influences any more; the 'iconic' elements aren't orcs and goblins -- D&D is owlbears, gelatinous cubes, beholders, mindflayers, drow, displacer beasts... it's all D&D stuff. Its own stuff.

And the movie serves to reinforce that. It separates itself from other fantasy by not including orcs and goblins and ogres and trolls, and instead focusing on the D&D-ness of it all. The monsters in the arena are all iconic D&D-specific monsters. The adventuring party isn't the traditional elf, dwarf, halfling, and human. The non-human NPCs are dragonborn and aaracokra and tabaxi. The world itself isn't medieval or dark ages, it's a bright, colourful fantasy rennaisance with giant skyscraping supermax prisons and magical arenas with shifting mazes and hot air balloons.

D&D has been its own genre for a long time, but I feel that now it's standing up and proudly declaring it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

And this is why I won't see the movie... because what the movie is isn't D&D to me.

While D&D has it's own things, it also has everything else from the early influences, and without them, it becomes something else (again, to me). My preference is for the dark medieval-like world, with orcs and goblins and trolls, etc. where the D&D-unique "own stuff" is rare and magical and what separates it from other fantasy. But when such things are commonplace, it takes away the magic for me.

So, what you've described is what D&D can be, certainly, if that is what you want, but it isn't what it IS. What it is, however, is different to everyone who enjoys it, and that is part of what makes it great.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

D&D has been its own genre for a long time, but I feel that now it's standing up and proudly declaring it.

I don't think even that is quite what it is either.

D&D has been proudly itself-and-not-another for a long time. But while it's been (relatively) confident about that, outsiders had for a long time still looked down their noses at it. D&D was for weirdo loser poindexters who had to imagine fictional achievements because they weren't able to achieve anything in the real world.

But three big things happened over the past two decades and change that changed a lot of that: the mass public appeal of other media with a similar "isn't that for NERDS?" reputation, creator-driven media (via the Internet), and the explosive growth of social gaming and MMORPGs in particular (especially World of Warcraft.)

There have been superhero movies for ages, despite comics having a lingering stink of "only for antisocial losers who hyperfixate." I mean, Christopher Reeve basically made his career being Superman across four separate films. But both DC and Marvel became absolute cultural phenomena at the turn of the millennium, and they essentially haven't left the box office since. Even if many don't read comics, many, many, many people are now into comic-book stories and characters. Likewise, previously "too nerdy" things like Game of Thrones have gotten (mostly...) beloved and supremely popular TV or film adaptations. Point being: the stigma associated with being "a nerd" was fading. Much of this is really the result of the social penetration of technology: it is now widely-understood that knowing how computers work is a really useful skill, not just a thing FRIGGIN' NYERDS know; almost everyone has either a desktop/laptop computer or a gaming console, and the space between those two things has been shrinking for ages. Fancy TVs have long been one of the ways to display wealth, but you really need to know at least a little bit of science now in order to make sure you get an actually good TV, not just an expensive one. Etc. This practical de-stigmatization brought with it an aesthetic one as well, and it's finally gone far enough to hit arguably the nerdiest thing of all, tabletop roleplaying games.

Further, the Internet has given rise to an enormous culture of creative expression. That has encouraged folks to dig into what is on offer--and to go exploring in areas they wouldn't have necessarily done before. This is a smaller thing, more a booster for the other two effects, but the greater interconnectivity has enabled people to consume a wider variety of media and to consider a larger number of options. It's also enabled people to stay connected to one another in ways they couldn't before. Prior to 1980, if you moved away from your local friends and such, you might go to the effort of really actively preserving your friendship with specific people...but you certainly wouldn't have bothered with a lot of the more casual/satellite friendships. The loss of such connections was just one of the painful consequences of moving around. Now? Keep tabs on Facebook, have a Discord chat now and then, maybe fire up a multiplayer video game, send memes or youtube links by text...it's a LOT easier to maintain a friendship group at a distance now.

Which leads to the rise of social gaming. MMOs existed before World of Warcraft, but WoW changed everything. It was huge. Multiple millions of active players! Advertisements on prime-time television, with famous actors! And it connected people. There was a shared language, a shared experience. The highs and lows of adventuring, brought right to your doorstep. But...then WoW went into decline. The glory days seemed way back in the rear view mirror. Sure, it was still the 900 lb gorilla, but it was pretty clearly falling. Thing is, once people have been introduced to that concept, it doesn't ever really go away. It just gets back-benched. Enter D&D: offering a personal, tailored experience, one without subscription fees (unless you really want to), where it's you and your friends all the time, but a real person is writing it for you and not for the nameless masses of MMO players. Social gaming made D&D plausible to the masses as an entertaining evening's fun, because people had gotten used to the idea that getting the full value out of something might take weeks or months.

D&D is flowering because of a cultural change. It has little to nothing to do with the game itself, nor how the game perceives itself. (In part because, let's face it, to people who have never played a TTRPG, every version of D&D is essentially the same. It's only the hardcore enthusiasts--like people who frequent this subforum--who know enough so that they can even be able to care about version differences.) That cultural change is probably here to stay, but what effects it has may vary over time. If it does, that is when "the game itself" (and to a lesser extent "how the game perceives itself") will actually matter. And it may matter a very great deal, if it isn't welcoming to the new player, exactly as what happens with other social gaming products.

 

[Retreater]

I'll do you one better: Why is D&D?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

One thing which struck me when I watched the D&D movie (and booted up Baldur's Gate 3) is how D&D's own internal fiction has evolved over the years. More and more, D&D has become its own genre rather than one which seeks to emulate existing fantasy literature. It's not a boiling pot of Tolkien, Vance, Howard, Leiber, and all the other Appendix-N influences any more; the 'iconic' elements aren't orcs and goblins -- D&D is owlbears, gelatinous cubes, beholders, mindflayers, drow, displacer beasts... it's all D&D stuff. Its own stuff.

And the movie serves to reinforce that. It separates itself from other fantasy by not including orcs and goblins and ogres and trolls, and instead focusing on the D&D-ness of it all. The monsters in the arena are all iconic D&D-specific monsters. The adventuring party isn't the traditional elf, dwarf, halfling, and human. The non-human NPCs are dragonborn and aaracokra and tabaxi. The world itself isn't medieval or dark ages, it's a bright, colourful fantasy rennaisance with giant skyscraping supermax prisons and magical arenas with shifting mazes and hot air balloons.

D&D has been its own genre for a long time, but I feel that now it's standing up and proudly declaring it.

What you describe is really more the Forgotten Realms and settings it inspired like Nerath, Exandria, Golarion, Midguard, etc..., then "D&D. Maybe to an extent Eberron & Dragonlance too.

But for the most part beyond the D&D monsters you listed, the rest like the epic fantasy, less gritty setting doesn't apply to say Greyhawk, which is much grittier and more mideval then the Forgotten Realms where even its fantasy Egypt has steam punk elements and access technology and epic magic regular fantasy Egypts wouldn't.

Its was when FR & settings it inspired became the default of D&D mixed with a prefernce for selling merch that was unique to D&D that D&D solidified as its own genre, because FR was increasingly distant from the more Tolkien inspired elements then of Greyhawk (although Greyhawk did have sci fi elements in the barrier peaks that FR never had). The subtle Canadian influence on FR spread throughout to the rest D&D in subtle ways too.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

D&D has been its own genre for a long time, but I feel that now it's standing up and proudly declaring it.

I mean, that's one valid take.

Personally I assumed they were leaning extremely hard into D&D-specific IP stuff was because that's all stuff that D&D can merchandise and has a stronger IP grasp on. So rather than it being a "proud to be different" thing it's a "this is what we own" kind of thing.

 

[bedir than]

I think they captured some of the less played versions of D&D with the prison scene and the underdark, plus the references to the Elk tribe with its various wars.

 

[J.Quondam]

I mean, that's one valid take.

Personally I assumed they were leaning extremely hard into D&D-specific IP stuff was because that's all stuff that D&D can merchandise and has a stronger IP grasp on. So rather than it being a "proud to be different" thing it's a "this is what we own" kind of thing.

Yeah. Imo, it's both "D&D as proud genre" and "D&D as sacred IP," depending which eye you squint.
But certainly the "this is what we own" take was made blatantly obvious with the OGL kerfuffle earlier this year. Thankfully that's ended in a loud faceplant. For now, at least.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yeah. Imo, it's both "D&D as proud genre" and "D&D as sacred IP," depending which eye you squint.

Indeed, and if they stick with it, and the movie and other D&D media projects are successful, it'll become a kind of feedback loop, wherein D&D increasingly pushes in the direction @Morrus indicates.

Ironically enough, I think that would kind of be a good thing for everyone in the fantasy space - other TTRPGs, videogames, fantasy authors and so on, because if D&D moves away from being "generic fantasy" (which it's never been great at) and more towards being a specific subset of fantasy, that'll actually open up space, and I think increase interest in products with a different vision of fantasy to D&D.

(One minor counter-note is Baldur's Gate 3, which is, despite being based on D&D and set in the FR, referencing a lot of FR lore and groups and history and gods and so on, and indeed prominently featuring D&D-specific monsters - Mind Flayers - strangely oriented towards being generic fantasy rather than D&D fantasy - indeed when the early access first started it seemed to just be a Divinity: Original Sin game with D&D trappings/rules - there was a ton of fan pushback and they pivoted away from that to engage with D&D/FR tropes/tone more though). But it started development a long while back, and I suspect it might have been rather different if it started more recently.)

 

[Parmandur]

I mean, that's one valid take.

Personally I assumed they were leaning extremely hard into D&D-specific IP stuff was because that's all stuff that D&D can merchandise and has a stronger IP grasp on. So rather than it being a "proud to be different" thing it's a "this is what we own" kind of thing.

Both/And.

 

[TheLibrarian]

Haven't seen the movie yet. But anecdotally what I've observed from the biz strategy of Hasbro/Wizards over the last 5 or so years is that D&D seems to be moving from a game to a brand. Its something that can be engaged with casually if you want, but ultimately being sold to me as a product I can identify with or identify as, whether I play or not.

What I fear that will lead to is a watering down of the actual content and an eventual dilution of the game itself. Like Marvel and Star Wars, they'll ride high for a while, and then slowly devolve in to meh.

 

[Morrus]

Haven't seen the movie yet. But anecdotally what I've observed from the biz strategy of Hasbro/Wizards over the last 5 or so years is that D&D seems to be moving from a game to a brand.

Well yeah, that’s been well documented!

 

[Tonguez]

Haven't seen the movie yet. But anecdotally what I've observed from the biz strategy of Hasbro/Wizards over the last 5 or so years is that D&D seems to be moving from a game to a brand.

um not just the last 5 years. The whole D20 shift was about building brand and its not like marketing and merchandizing wasnt behind the DnD cartoon, video games or 2000 Movie. Hasbro is just much better at it

 

[Ruin Explorer]

um not just the last 5 years. The whole D20 shift was about building brand and its not like marketing and merchandizing wasnt behind the DnD cartoon, video games or 2000 Movie. Hasbro is just much better at it

I mean, it's fair to observe a difference over the last 5 years, specifically.

In 2014, D&D was considered a very low-value brand by WotC. The reason 5E was allowed to be made was because WotC didn't think D&D was going to make a lot of money after 4E, where their marketing/branding efforts had largely failed to get traction, or at least to get the traction they wanted. That's also why the "slow-and-steady" product release cadence was chosen, and why D&D went back to the OGL in 2016, after abandoning it in 4E.

But in the last 5 years, particularly through the pandemic (but starting before), D&D has exploded in popularity, and WotC's approach to marketing and merchandizing has become significantly more aggressive. Stuff like the VTT project would have been completely unimaginable in 2014, because the VTT development (allegedly with 350 employees) has to be costing WotC about as much as they were expecting D&D to even pull in back in 2014. And stuff like the cadence of products, and what the products are is also changing or has changed.

 

[Tonguez]

But in the last 5 years, particularly through the pandemic (but starting before), D&D has exploded in popularity, and WotC's approach to marketing and merchandizing has become significantly more aggressive. Stuff like the VTT project would have been completely unimaginable in 2014, because the VTT development (allegedly with 350 employees) has to be costing WotC about as much as they were expecting D&D to even pull in back in 2014. And stuff like the cadence of products, and what the products are is also changing or has changed.

yeah one thing I noticed about the movie is that Hasbro is named, no mention at all of WoTC. Hasbro bought WoTC in what 2000? So they must have seen it as a good investment then. But they reorganisation only happened in 2019-21 and there has certainly been exponential growth since then - as I said Hasbro is much better at marketing

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

As far back as 2006, when I started my ongoing campaign with a mix of newbie and experienced players, I knew I wanted to give them a classic D&D experience and did, in fact, make a list of what elements said "D&D" to me, rather than just generic fantasy or something that spoke to my tastes personally.

Even at this point, I continue to try to put iconic stuff like mimics and gelatinous cubes into games when we're playing D&D (I include OSR and Pathfinder as part of the D&D family), as I feel like those iconics are now a core part of that experience.

It's the same as if I was running a game of Vampire: The Masquerade. I would find a way to have a nightclub scene and you'd better believe there'd be at least one edgelord with a katana and a trenchcoat. It's part of the essence of the game now, to me, no matter what the rights holders may argue.

 

[Fifinjir]

I'll do you one better: Why is D&D?

But no one asks “how is D&D?”.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

But no one asks “how is D&D?”.

After watching the movie, I want to know- WHEN is D&D?

 

[Azzy]

After watching the movie, I want to know- WHEN is D&D?

So do DMs trying to schedule around several players.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

So do DMs trying to schedule around several players.

For this purpose I have always valued the ultra-simple website made for this: WhenIsGood

I have scheduled multiple different gaming things (not just D&D) using this, and helped others schedule their own games with it. Certain modern features (like some paid stuff in Discord) are slightly better now, since they do things like dynamically adapting to the user's time zone without needing user input. But when you just want a simple way of getting everyone on the same page (and especially if it's F2F play so you don't need to worry about time zone), WhenIsGood can't be beat.