What is GURPS?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

(Oh, and I find it somewhat ironic that I often end up defending GURPS here on ENWorld... and D&D on the Steve Jackson Games forums.)

What, you like two different systems? And visit a different forum besides EN World? Is that even allowed?

 

[Choranzanus]

I have run GURPS for medieval fantasy campaigns (Warhammer Fantasy and Eberron), and I must strongly disagree - it works excellently for this genre as well. After all, it's easier to add fantastic elements to a game based on realism than it is to achieve realism for a game that was never intended to be realistic in the first place (*cough* d20 *cough).

No, it is not. In GURPS sword does about 1D damage and 9mm handgun does 2D+2. In reality, if somebody hits you with a sword, you die; with handguns you probably die (without modern medicine at least). The above mentioned numbers actually work in D&D fantasy or modern day "reasonably realistic but not quite one shot dead" campaign. Combine the two and realism will implode. GURPS makes many compromises to achieve its goals. In my post I wasn't trying to be too hard on GURPS, but pointing out that the design principles you mention are fundamentally schizophrenic, and the results look like that.
People on SJG boards often seem to miss these points and pan D&D because it is "unrealistic", but they live in illusion.

I cannot recommend anyone to run Eberron in GURPS. It seems pointless to convert it all, even if it ultimately worked.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Here it is...

I don't care what the others say. You're a peach.

But who wouldn't want to play a game in which genetically modified rabbits infiltrate a rabbit warren which have been secretly changed to be

- carnivorous (eating other rabbits they can catch in a dark corner of the warren)
- rapidly reproducing (they are emitting pheromones that make them irresistible to female rabbits - who subsequently go through an accelerated pregnancy after which the newborn burst from the womb) and
- rapidly growing (shedding the outer layer of their skin - including their fur - during each growth spurt)?

There's only one thing the surviving normal rabbits can do - infiltrate the nearby biotech lab that spawned them and find the poison tailored to those carnivores, before they spread out all over the world and threaten rabbitkind!

That's 100% pure awesome, despite the fact that I'm going to have nightmares about it now. I keep getting these recurring images of exploring a seemingly abandoned rabbit den and stumbling across dozens of bloody rabbit pelts, while hearing unnatural hissing and clicking noises from deeper in the tunnels...

 

[The Cardinal]

I cannot recommend anyone to run Eberron in GURPS. It seems pointless to convert it all, even if it ultimately worked.

Seeing the growing numbers of gamers around here who enjoy their fantasy campaigns (Eberron, Warhammer, Conan, Midnight) much more since their GMs decided to convert them to GURPS, this kind of effort doesn't seem all that pointless to me...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

No, it is not. In GURPS sword does about 1D damage and 9mm handgun does 2D+2.

Technically, a sword, when wielded with someone with average Strength, will do 1D+1 cutting damage. Which averages out to (3+4+6+7+9+10)/6=6.5 points - a major wound. The handgun shot averages out to 9 hit points - a bit more, but not excessively so. And note that we are talking about a pistol here, not a rifle.

In reality, if somebody hits you with a sword, you die; with handguns you probably die (without modern medicine at least).

That depends on a lot of factors - where the weapon hits, how strong the attacker is (in the case of swords), the general robustness of the victim (read up on what kind of stuff Rasputin survived), what kind of gun is used, and so forth. Single injuries such as those are certainly enough to incapacitate a limb, but they aren't lethal unless they hit a vital organ (which can be done in GURPS if you used the advanced hit location mechanics).

The above mentioned numbers actually work in D&D fantasy or modern day "reasonably realistic but not quite one shot dead" campaign. Combine the two and realism will implode.

The numbers look rather plausible to me.

GURPS makes many compromises to achieve its goals. In my post I wasn't trying to be too hard on GURPS, but pointing out that the design principles you mention are fundamentally schizophrenic, and the results look like that.

They are not nearly as schizophrenic as you seem to think.

People on SJG boards often seem to miss these points and pan D&D because it is "unrealistic", but they live in illusion.

Actually, I think the most common criticism revolves around the rather limited customization abilities for characters, which is perfectly valid.

I cannot recommend anyone to run Eberron in GURPS. It seems pointless to convert it all, even if it ultimately worked.

It wasn't all that hard - all I had to do was to come up with racial templates and price conversion. Actually, I think GURPS probably works even better for the "pulp" atmosphere of Eberron than D&D - the characters can get quite powerful, but never really superhuman, and in all likelyhood they will still find it prudent to run from hordes of mooks even once they have become very experienced...

 

[Aus_Snow]

In reality, if somebody hits you with a sword, you die

Classic.

 

[jdrakeh]

Classic.

Yeah, I have no idea what reality that is. Here, in the reality that I inhabit, people survive stab wounds on a pretty regular basis.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

That's 100% pure awesome, despite the fact that I'm going to have nightmares about it now. I keep getting these recurring images of exploring a seemingly abandoned rabbit den and stumbling across dozens of bloody rabbit pelts, while hearing unnatural hissing and clicking noises from deeper in the tunnels...

And that's just one of the many things you can do with GURPS...

GURPS is brilliant for doing some really strange crossovers, and its sourcebooks are generally written with the assumption that the reader might wish to use the material in it in combination with an entirely different genre. That's why I recommend GURPS even to those who will never play the system - their books are often so thought-provoking that you will get dozens of new ideas for adventures and campaigns from a single read-through.

GURPS Horror really dissects the horror genre and rebuilds it. Transhuman Space gives you so many ideas of what people might do with future technology that you will also get no shortage of ideas how people in a fantasy environment might use magic to change themselves and their environment (I once wrote an article about elves as a case study of fantasy Transhumanism...). GURPS Space has its own rule system for rolling up entire creatures (sapient or not) in alien environments - complete with the basics of their general behavior - and this system can also easily be used for other games.

Reading books for more than a single game system means broadening one's horizons. Inspiration can be found everywhere, but if you read books from different game lines, you will find ideas that you probably wouldn't find otherwise. And that's not just limited to D&D and GURPS. Take Exalted, for example - it radically made me rethink campaigns for very powerful characters, and now I know how to make them something more than just defeating bigger and badder enemies.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Take Exalted, for example - it radically made me rethink campaigns for very powerful characters, and now I know how to make them something more than just defeating bigger and badder enemies.

Would you mind expanding on that point, just a bit? Sorry, I know it's not quite on topic, but I'm intrigued. To be honest, I never gave Exalted a fair go - it got the 'don't like the looks of you' treatment, and was thereafter shunned. Occasionally, I'll do that.

But I'd love to hear some of its good points - particularly the kind of thing you've just mentioned - from. . . well, frankly from someone not known (AFAICS) as an Exalted fanboi.

 

[Choranzanus]

That depends on a lot of factors - where the weapon hits, how strong the attacker is (in the case of swords), the general robustness of the victim (read up on what kind of stuff Rasputin survived), what kind of gun is used, and so forth. Single injuries such as those are certainly enough to incapacitate a limb, but they aren't lethal unless they hit a vital organ (which can be done in GURPS if you used the advanced hit location mechanics).

The numbers look rather plausible to me.

OK, I rest my case, you do not understand. Lets talk about mechanics.

Actually, I think the most common criticism revolves around the rather limited customization abilities for characters, which is perfectly valid.

True. But as I warned, mechanics is more than character creation. When discussing GURPS it seems inevitable that some people forget this.
Min-maxers and powergamers love GURPS, no doubt.