Spelljammer What is important to you about Spelljammer

[HaroldTheHobbit]

..."how does this work for people who don't know much about medieval science?"

Well, one can take good advice about being careful with your fireballs in the phlogiston. Or, after the TPK, one might actually be interested to read up a bit about Stahl and Becher.

On a more serious note, for me it was the other way around - SJ explains the mechanics of the setting in a good way, no prior knowledge necessary, but it got me interested to learn more about real world medieval science.

 

[Tonguez]

I want a rollicking pirate ship in the Rainbow Sea facing off against Neogi Deathspiders and Giff mercenaries

 

[Tonguez]

Remove gunpowder and make all weapons totally alchemical, or artificer based. So instead of shooting a musket ball it shoots a ball containing flame, or an artificer lightning gun (similar to Shaintar). Lots of scope with this to be honest.

You do realise that gunpowder is alchemical?

 

[Rogerd1]

You do realise that gunpowder is alchemical?

This also removes the musket issues and how real you want to be.
Just makes it simpler and cleaner, and leave aspects of the real world science behind.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This also removes the musket issues and how real you want to be.
Just makes it simpler and cleaner, and leave aspects of the real world science behind.

"Real World" and "Spelljammer" really don't belong together!

Spelljammer has fantasy guns firing fantasy bullets using fantasy gunpowder. Any expectation that they should be anything like the real world versions is silly.

And the existing firearms rules in the DMG work just fine for that.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

WotC is only selling us the pieces to build, and we can create a lot of different things. We have got the same pencils and paints, but our pictures may be radically different. For example if you want something more grimmdark, then the darkspace is perfect for you. If you want rainbows and buttlerflies, then the faeriespace is your place, and even you could enjoy a crossover My Little Pony +Faeriespace (take care your sugar level if you don't want to suffer diabetes).

 

[James Gasik]

If you want bionoids in Spelljammer then you have to say Hasbro could sell toys based in these.

And the dragons from the monster manual should come back: sun, radiant, moon, stelar and company. But I guess then we should see also their dragonborn versions.

I fully embrace the ability to buy Elf Guyver toys! Let's do this!

 

[Rogerd1]

"Real World" and "Spelljammer" really don't belong together!

Spelljammer has fantasy guns firing fantasy bullets using fantasy gunpowder. Any expectation that they should be anything like the real world versions is silly.

And the existing firearms rules in the DMG work just fine for that.

I don't agree.
Is the mix for alchemical gunpowder any different from the real world?

 

[James Gasik]

Probably? Just look at some of the reagents alchemists used, like "red sulfur". And it doesn't even matter if it WAS the same, the physical laws of the D&D universe might prevent the standard mix from working.

In Roger Zelazny's novel, The Guns of Avalon, you can bring gunpowder from other dimensions to the protagonist's world, but it didn't work. Only by chance did he discover a compound that, while inert on it's home plane, functioned in a similar manner to gunpowder on his world.

In Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame", college students from Earth go to a fantasy world, and one of them manages to create (after trial and error) viable gunpowder. The wizards of that world, not understanding it, created a magical equivalent that exploded when it came into contact with water.

This just goes to show that even if the knowledge gets out, it doesn't mean others will immediately be able to monopolize on it, if at all. "Create Smoke Powder" could be a magic spell that the Arcane offer to sell to prospective clients, along with the ability to craft Spelljammer Helms.

 

[Rogerd1]

In Roger Zelazny's novel, The Guns of Avalon, you can bring gunpowder from other dimensions to the protagonist's world, but it didn't work. Only by chance did he discover a compound that, while inert on it's home plane, functioned in a similar manner to gunpowder on his world.

In Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame", college students from Earth go to a fantasy world, and one of them manages to create (after trial and error) viable gunpowder. The wizards of that world, not understanding it, created a magical equivalent that exploded when it came into contact with water.

This just goes to show that even if the knowledge gets out, it doesn't mean others will immediately be able to monopolize on it, if at all. "Create Smoke Powder" could be a magic spell that the Arcane offer to sell to prospective clients, along with the ability to craft Spelljammer Helms.

Now this is how I would work it, or just make it totally alchemical, and thus not worry about real world physics and chemistry too much.

Probably? Just look at some of the reagents alchemists used, like "red sulfur". And it doesn't even matter if it WAS the same, the physical laws of the D&D universe might prevent the standard mix from working.

Doesn't matter what they call it, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then you know the answer.
So like I said above, just totally change it up a bit, maybe even take a leaf from some superhero stuff, so instead of shooting a bullet it might shoot nets to entangle.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Is the mix for alchemical gunpowder any different from the real world?

Yes.

Smokepowder

Although real world gunpowder is also "alchemical".

 

[James Gasik]

The reason Spelljammer had guns mostly had to do with the arquebus being in the PHB. I'm not sure why 2e wanted to introduce firearms, but my guess is Ed Greenwood. Ed is a huge antique gun nut, and wrote articles in Dragon about early firearms for the game, and post Time of Troubles, smoke powder and firearms became official parts of the setting.

In 2e, D&D's love affair with the Forgotten Realms was in full swing, as they started stapling other settings onto it that didn't have a particular world they were attached to.

Al-Qadim and Kara-Tur, for example. Heck, even the Rock of Bral is officially in Wildspace, despite being written to be put anywhere the DM wants it to be.

I hope in any Spelljammer update, they'll talk about what's been going on in Wildspace in the decades since we left it.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Haven't you thought about crossbows with artificial muscles that reload itself? In the real life the pistol shrimp has got a very powerful power. Let's imagine the "live machines" a fleshwarper could craft with those artificial muscles.

If there is firearms then we can see ideas by players and DMs, for example a simple cantrip to create a piece of ectoplasm to block cannons, or illusory magic to create effects as smoke grenades. Other factor could be some religious taboo, for example gunslingers couldn't be allowed to enter Valhalla because firearms aren't "fair play" in the battlefield.

The Real Power of the Pistol Shrimp - Ocean Conservancy

These tiny shrimp pack a BIG punch

oceanconservancy.org

We aren't talking only about gunpowder and firearms, but also "biotechnology, the "life shaping" art to craft living machines (do you rember the old biotechnology by the rhustili in Dark Sun setting?).

The sheens, biomechanical horrors, appeared in Dragon Magazine #258 and #270.

 

[Rogerd1]

Yes.
Smokepowder

It is a wiki mate, and unreliable at the best of times.
Does it say it in any of the fluff or RAW.

Although real world gunpowder is also "alchemical".

This is rubbish and you should feel bad for saying it.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

If there is firearms, some DMs and players will create some anti-bullets defenses, for example a catrip about creating a little piece of ectoplasm to block canons, or illusory magic for an effect as smoke grenades. Other possible factor may be a religious taboo, the gunslingers aren't allowed to enter Valhalla because the firearms in the battlefield isn't "fair play".

 

[Rogerd1]

Haven't you thought about crossbows with artificial muscles that reload itself? In the real life the pistol shrimp has got a very powerful power. Let's imagine the "live machines" a fleshwarper could craft with those artificial muscles.

If there is firearms then we can see ideas by players and DMs, for example a simple cantrip to create a piece of ectoplasm to block cannons, or illusory magic to create effects as smoke grenades. Other factor could be some religious taboo, for example gunslingers couldn't be allowed to enter Valhalla because firearms aren't "fair play" in the battlefield.

The Real Power of the Pistol Shrimp - Ocean Conservancy

These tiny shrimp pack a BIG punch

oceanconservancy.org

We aren't talking only about gunpowder and firearms, but also "biotechnology, the "life shaping" art to craft living machines (do you rember the old biotechnology by the rhustili in Dark Sun setting?).

Exactly this, it is a fantasy magical pirate setting, and there is no reason that you cannot put gunpowder and real science in boot of the car and just play a it a bit fast and loosey goosey!

 

[James Gasik]

This is the best I have for you, from the 2e PHB. 5e Smoke Powder is apparently in Dragon Heist, which I don't own.

 

[Rogerd1]

This is the best I have for you, from the 2e PHB. 5e Smoke Powder is apparently in Dragon Heist, which I don't own.

That is fair enough mate, although I would certainly be more inclined to follow @LuisCarlos17f ideas above though.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah, but I don't know. Spelljammer is intended to mimic the "Iron Men and Wooden Ships" style of play, right up to using cannons (bombards) on some vessels. Real Age of Exploration stuff. I don't see a problem with that, though I understand some people don't want technology in their D&D (even though science fantasy is part of the game's DNA).

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Where D&D can be mixed with sci-fi and space fantasy.

I'm pretty sure porn is like porn for nerds, but I otherwise agree with the point.