Spelljammer What is important to you about Spelljammer

[James Gasik]

I'm a little more attached to the classic art myself.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Actual outer space. Not the Astral. If the ships can travel to the planes, or specific helms grant that ability, OK. As long as there's actual outer space, I'm fine.

But weird space, with space dragons.

Was really outer space in Spelljamer? I mean, there is no Phlogiston in outer space, but there is spelljamer.

 

[loverdrive]

Being "Treasure Planet: the Role-playing Game". That's pretty much it.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Yep, this. There are various changes I make for my own use, but just as I'm not interested in seeing someone else's vision of the setting, neither would I want to impose my take on anyone else. It should be presented as-is.

Also, given the mess WotC made of Ravenloft, I'm frankly not at all interested in any attempt they make to 'reimagine' the setting.

VRGtR is the book the makes me think we could get an interesting reimagining of spelljamer. I’m not interest in a pure retread, give me a new twist please.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Spelljammer can't be only galleons on the space, because other companies can create their own space fantasy franchise. Spelljammer is also those elements adding a special touch, the iconic races and monsters. Spelljammer is Pirates of the Caribean and the Mos Eisley cantina, D&D mixed with lots of elements from sci-fi.

Of course Spelljammer has to change, because after more twenty years the youngest generation of players have drunken from lots of different sources, for example videogames.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It is a wiki mate, and unreliable at the best of times.

It references it's primary sources. Check them out then come back and apologise.

Does it say it in any of the fluff or RAW.

Yes, in the original Spelljammer boxed set (which I own). The propellent used by the giff in their weapons in no more made from potassium nitrate, carbon and sulphur than spelljammer ships are propelled by the combustion of hydrogen and oxygen.

This is rubbish and you should feel bad for saying it.

In the real world gunpowder was developed by alchemists long before anyone understood the chemistry involved. As a product of alchemy it is, by definition, alchemical.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Was really outer space in Spelljamer? I mean, there is no Phlogiston in outer space, but there is spelljamer.

Depends on what side of the crystal sphere you are. There's no phlogiston on the inside of the c.s., only the void of wild space.

 

[Fenris-77]

My main concern for a new Spelljammer game is one of scale. The setting stuff, the phlogiston and the crystal spheres and whatnot, aren't what I call 'game scale', but actually rather enormous. Personally, I'd prefer something where you come out of a gate, or whatever, and the adventure location is much more 'right there'. Of course you want the journey to important, but I don't really care about navigating through thousands of miles of empty blargh to get where I'm going.

 

[Rogerd1]

It references it's primary sources. Check them out then come back and apologise.

Nope!
Wiki's are not source.
It is not on me to provide your proof.

In the real world gunpowder was developed by alchemists long before anyone understood the chemistry involved. As a product of alchemy it is, by definition, alchemical.

Alchemy that uses real science is still science. End of.

 

[Jer]

I want ships in space. Big wooden sailing ships flying through space and having to deal with weird alien races like the neogi and the illithids. We've already got the write-ups for the "space" races, so I know those are going to be in there and I don't need to ask for them.

And I want to see weird ideas. Truly weird ideas. It's an opportunity to go nuts - the 2e designers took it as an opportunity to go nuts with the funny ha-ha, and I am assuming that will be in there, but if there was ever an "anything goes" gonzo setting, it's Spelljammer, so I hope they take that opportunity and run with it.

Beyond that it doesn't really matter much to me - just rereading the 2e Spelljammer stuff again has already fired up my imagination and is making me think of a space campaign and how I'd go about doing it. I wouldn't mind some short adventures and lots of smaller locations with adventure hooks though.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Nope!
Wiki's are not source.
It is not on me to provide your proof.

Alchemy that uses real science is still science. End of

I think you are miss-using the term science when you mean chemistry. Science is a system, a methodology. Gunpowder was not created, originally, with science. Science is how we understand the chemistry, but they are separate. Gunpowder was created with alchemy that relied on chemistry that was unknown to the creators.

FYI, IIRC, @Paul Farquhar is a scientist, so you might not want to argue with him on this distinction

 

[Rogerd1]

I think you are miss-using the term science when you mean chemistry. Science is a system, a methodology. Gunpowder was not created, originally, with science. Science is how we understand the chemistry, but they are separate. Gunpowder was created with alchemy that relied on chemistry that was unknown to the creators.

FYI, IIRC, @Paul Farquhar is a scientist, so you might not want to argue with him on this distinction

Alchemy was a protoscience to get technical, when the rigeurs of modern scientific method was not available. Now the trouble with alchemy it led to all sorts of rather dodgy practices, imbibing mercury as a famous one among Chinese immortality seekers.

Chemistry is using scientific principles, and led to other dodgy areas such as chemical weapons being one prime example. But it has also led to cures to literally hundreds of diseases which was not possible with alchemy.

Thus alchemy using the description from the post below.

Spelljammer - What is important to you about Spelljammer

..."how does this work for people who don't know much about medieval science?" Well, one can take good advice about being careful with your fireballs in the phlogiston. Or, after the TPK, one might actually be interested to read up a bit about Stahl and Becher. On a more serious note, for me...

www.enworld.org

This is totally alchemy, and has nothing to do with science is any way. They are not the same.

 

[dave2008]

FYI, @Rogerd1 , here is the definition of smokepowder in the 2e DMG (pg 179-180):

 

[Rogerd1]

FYI, @Rogerd1 , here is the definition of smokepowder in the 2e DMG (pg 179-180):

View attachment 154804
View attachment 154805

Thanks mate, see I am fine with that, as it shows that it is totally alchemical and has nothing to do with science being total magical in nature.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Alchemy was a protoscience to get technical, when the rigeurs of modern scientific method was not available. Now the trouble with alchemy it led to all sorts of rather dodgy practices, imbibing mercury as a famous one among Chinese immortality seekers.

Chemistry is using scientific principles, and led to other dodgy areas such as chemical weapons being one prime example. But it has also led to cures to literally hundreds of diseases which was not possible with alchemy.

Thus alchemy using the description from the post below.

Spelljammer - What is important to you about Spelljammer

..."how does this work for people who don't know much about medieval science?" Well, one can take good advice about being careful with your fireballs in the phlogiston. Or, after the TPK, one might actually be interested to read up a bit about Stahl and Becher. On a more serious note, for me...

www.enworld.org

This is totally alchemy, and has nothing to do with science is any way. They are not the same.

I never claimed that science and alchemy were the same. Nor did Paul as far as I can tell.

Also a clarification, chemistry doesn’t use science, it simply is what it is. We use science to understand the chemistry of things, but the chemistry is there whether or not we understand it. That is how we got gunpowder without science! It seems your are saying “chemistry” when you really mean “the study of chemistry”, which is a science.

 

[Rogerd1]

I never claimed that science and alchemy were the same. Nor did Paul as far as I can tell.

Also a clarification, chemistry doesn’t use science, it simple is what it is. We use science to understand the chemistry of things, but the chemistry is there whether or not we understand it. That is how we got gunpowder without science! It seems your are saying “chemistry” when you really mean “the study of chemistey”, which is a science

Well...no.
How and why certain reactions happen, results in chemistry which is a scientific study and overlaps between numerous fields.

What is Chemistry

web.archive.org

Chemistry Is Everywhere - American Chemical Society

American Chemical Society: Chemistry for Life.

www.acs.org

In short, chemistry is a science.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Well...no.
How and why certain reactions happen, results in chemistry which is a scientific study and overlaps between numerous fields.

What is Chemistry

web.archive.org

Chemistry Is Everywhere - American Chemical Society

American Chemical Society: Chemistry for Life.

www.acs.org

In short, chemistry is a science.

Ok, I accept that chemistry is the term used to describe the brand of science. However, the point remains. Substitute “chemical reaction” for “chemistry” or similar more accurate terminology. The point is you were using the term science incorrectly, not the definition of chemistry. I made a mistake their, pretty big of me to be able to admit that on the internet!

edit: where it gets complicated is that when we talk about the chemistry of something, we are not talking about the science of chemistry, but the actual chemical make up of a thing. Which is the definition I was getting at in my previous posts.

 

[bedir than]

I need a heavy lean into Age of Exploration/Piracy vibes, with a dash of Star Trek's exploration for the good of all intent

 

[Rogerd1]

In many ways I think that SJ has a more Babylon 5 type vibe to me to be honest. With just a dash of Crusade.

 

[Stormonu]

Can we drop the alchemy/chemistry debate, it's silly when we're dealing with a fantasy RPG anyways.

I just want Giff, Neogi, Tradesmen ships, the Rock of Braal and Giant Space Hamsters (and their creators).

The one thing I DO want changed - that spelljamming helms prevent characters from casting their spells.