Spelljammer What is important to you about Spelljammer

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

You're probably right, though I don't think it's much of a stretch to say "have a guy with magic on your team". Don't most parties? Is there an all-martial campaign out there? If so, I'd love to hear about it, I have so many questions!

What questions do you have? Our current party has one magic user (a wizard), but we have had all martial adventures in 5e

 

[James Gasik]

Oh well, first of all, I guess the big one is the lack of in-combat healing if characters go down. Does this cause the game to grind to a halt?

Then, um, how reliant is the party on taking frequent short rests?

Does the party run into issues with resistance to non-magic weapons often? I saw this on some Tier 1 monsters and it really irked me when I played AL.

If the party suffers from status ailments that can only be removed easily with magic, what do the characters do about it?

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Oh well, first of all, I guess the big one is the lack of in-combat healing if characters go down. Does this cause the game to grind to a halt?

No, rarely does it become an issue. We are possibly more strategic about combat. We really haven’t had need for in combat healing. Additionally we are likely to run if we get ourselves in a bind nefore

Then, um, how reliant is the party on taking frequent short rests?

we average about 2 per day. But we use 5 min short rest, so we could do more if needed.

Does the party run into issues with resistance to non-magic weapons often? I saw this on some Tier 1 monsters and it really irked me when I played AL.

no, not a lot of monsters have resistance. The instance I can think of we knew before hand, from some investigation, and prepared some silvered weapons. We are lvl 15 and everyone has at least on magic item, so an issue at all now.

If the party suffers from status ailments that can only be removed easily with magic, what do the characters do about it?

That hasn’t really been a issue. I can’t really think of a monster we faced that put down pernicious status ailments.

 

[James Gasik]

No, rarely does it become an issue. We are possibly more strategic about combat. We really haven’t had need for in combat healing. Additionally we are likely to run if we get ourselves in a bind nefore



we average about 2 per day. But we use 5 min short rest, so we could do more if needed.


no, not a lot of monsters have resistance. The instance I can think of we knew before hand, from some investigation, and prepared some silvered weapons. We are lvl 15 and everyone has at least on magic item, so an issue at all now.


That hasn’t really been a issue. I can’t really think of a monster we faced that put down pernicious status ailments.

Ok, see I ran into these all the time when I played 5e last. Poison came up a ton in the Curse of Strahd tie in adventures, disease and fatigue can be annoying, and I had to deal with petrification once. Oh and paralysis. There's a lot of debate about when/where/how you can take short rests in games, and I've gotten used to people using magic to make those viable.

Running I think is the big issue, your DM probably has to be very on point about transitioning from "moving away in battle" to an actual chase scene, because many monsters can easily catch up to fleeing players and keep attacking them without the use of magic to slow them down- fog clouds, sleet storms, webs, that sort of thing.

 

[Stormonu]

Yeah, but those are sideshows to the general way things worked. My personal answer was ships powered by Aetheric Crystals (a la Aeronaut's Windlass) and navigated by means of orrery's that open a network of gates. Anyone can drive the ship, but finding the combinations to open various gates is what 'gates' players movement. Any answer is fine by me if it avoids relying on the presence of a spellcaster.

I'd be open for stellar winds or latent (ley lines?) powering the sails of the ships.

What I don't want is "oh, you're playing the wizard? You sit the helm and don't get to do anything else because it sucks all your spells dry".*

* Granted, it's been over 20 years since I read spelljammer, so I might be misremembering how helms work.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Ok, see I ran into these all the time when I played 5e last. Poison came up a ton in the Curse of Strahd tie in adventures, disease and fatigue can be annoying, and I had to deal with petrification once. Oh and paralysis. There's a lot of debate about when/where/how you can take short rests in games, and I've gotten used to people using magic to make those viable.

I should clarify that we don’t run published adventures, so it is possible the adventures and opponents are tailored to us. I feel like most status effects are save at the end of your turn and don’t last long. We did have someone petrified once, we used the blood of the basilisk to brew a potion to reverse it

feelRunning I think is the big issue, your DM probably has to be very on point about transitioning from "moving away in battle" to an actual chase scene, because many monsters can easily catch up to fleeing players and keep attacking them without the use of magic to slow them down- fog clouds, sleet storms, webs, that sort of thing.

Our rouge has smoke bombs and oil to help our get-a-ways

 

[James Gasik]

No, you're right Stormonu. Contact with a Helm did in fact remove your spellcasting ability for the day, in exchange for granting you combat speed based on your level. Though any caster could get you to Spelljamming speeds outside of combat.

AD&D Bards were the best helmsmen.

OTOH, this would please the "balance casters" crowd...

 

[James Gasik]

I should clarify that we don’t run published adventures, so it is possible the adventures and opponents are tailored to us. I feel like most status effects are save at the end of your turn and don’t last long. We did have someone petrified once, we used the blood of the basilisk to brew a potion to reverse it

feelRunning I think is the big issue, your DM probably has to be very on point about transitioning from "moving away in battle" to an actual chase scene, because many monsters can easily catch up to fleeing players and keep attacking them without the use of magic to slow them down- fog clouds, sleet storms, webs, that sort of thing.

Our rouge has smoke bombs and oil to help our get-a-ways

I mean, I figured there'd have to be some backend adjustments, but the fact that it's still playable makes me happy. So much of D&D has "you need magic" baked in that it's hard to imagine 5e really makes a party with no Cleric viable.

 

[Faolyn]

Was really outer space in Spelljamer? I mean, there is no Phlogiston in outer space, but there is spelljamer.

Wildspace was outer space, for all intents and purposes. It just had a border (the Crystal Sphere) unlike real space.

 

[Faolyn]

My main concern for a new Spelljammer game is one of scale. The setting stuff, the phlogiston and the crystal spheres and whatnot, aren't what I call 'game scale', but actually rather enormous. Personally, I'd prefer something where you come out of a gate, or whatever, and the adventure location is much more 'right there'. Of course you want the journey to important, but I don't really care about navigating through thousands of miles of empty blargh to get where I'm going.

That's why there are so many monsters and Weird Anomalies in Wildspace. The blargh isn't empty.

 

[Faolyn]

I don't want ships reliant on spell casters at all personally. I think it's a silly limitation. I know, I know, I'm veering off the beaten path of precedent, but I don't want the a whole campaign contingent on having a (functional) caster. I don't like the helm preventing casting either, but my core problem is deeper.

While personally I don't like it either (even if the helm they introduced still allows the user to cast cantrips, a step up from the original version), there are so many spellcasting classes nowadays, and many of them have enough abilities that casting is just another ability.

What I would do is something like, you expend a slot of X level, and the ship travels either Xmph for 1 hour, or at a standard rate for X hours. Or you can choose to expend Hit Dice instead of slots, letting even non-casters take the helm for a bit.

 

[Fenris-77]

That's why there are so many monsters and Weird Anomalies in Wildspace. The blargh isn't empty.

Well, no, but it is HUGE. Way bigger than I need or want it to be to run adventures. A second consideration is to what extent a whole series of random journey encounters is what you're looking for. Personally, not so much, but that just my preference. Other players and tables might want exactly that.

 

[Fenris-77]

While personally I don't like it either (even if the helm they introduced still allows the user to cast cantrips, a step up from the original version), there are so many spellcasting classes nowadays, and many of them have enough abilities that casting is just another ability.

What I would do is something like, you expend a slot of X level, and the ship travels either Xmph for 1 hour, or at a standard rate for X hours. Or you can choose to expend Hit Dice instead of slots, letting even non-casters take the helm for a bit.

That would work. I'd still hate it. I don't want to have to calculate slots to speed to distance. YMMV, naturally.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I mean, I figured there'd have to be some backend adjustments, but the fact that it's still playable makes me happy. So much of D&D has "you need magic" baked in that it's hard to imagine 5e really makes a party with no Cleric viable.

We’ve been playing 5e since the beginning and I don’t think we have ever had a cleric. We did have a Druid once. In general we have 4 people who like to play fighters or rogues and 1 player who likes to play magic users. So that is typical what we have.

also, most of the time we play in a gritty GoT type setting where magic is mostly rare and unusual. The way to solve magical monsters is more through Witcher style research and preparation. We even spend downtime to do just that.

 

[Faolyn]

That would work. I'd still hate it. I don't want to have to calculate slots to speed to distance. YMMV, naturally.

Oh, sure. I wouldn't be upset if they had helms work on background magic only--still requiring a helmsman to sit there and navigate, and allowing for the expenditure of slots (or HD) for sudden bursts of speed, evasive maneuvers, escaping anomalies, or in magic-dead areas--but otherwise, no slots needed for typical travel.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

The easiest way to deal with the Spellcaster helm thing is for NPC helmsfolk hirelings to be available.

 

[James Gasik]

Or the players get access to an Artifurnace, a Helm powered by an Artifact, which has it's own...downsides.

"Man, why is it everywhere we go, Vecna cultists show up?"

 

[Fenris-77]

The easiest way to deal with the Spellcaster helm thing is for NPC helmsfolk hirelings to be available.

And put all the party mobility in one fragile NPC basket? Hmm. It works, but I don't love it. I'd prefer the PCs to crew their own ship.

 

[Parmandur]

And put all the party mobility in one fragile NPC basket? Hmm. It works, but I don't love it. I'd prefer the PCs to crew their own ship.

The Helm in DOTMM only requires having a spell slot available...very few parties will be without that, though it does scale with the power fo the maximum vaialble Spell Slot, so the Wizard is a better pick than the Eldritch Knight...

 

[James Gasik]

I mean, the Helm itself is kind of fragile, a direct hit with a bombard, catapult, or ballista might take it out anyways.