D&D 5E what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?

[TwoSix]

And yes, I could have jumped ship from TSR and kept playing old stuff, but for various reasons that wasn't an option that I took, although I did continue participating in some online communities like the Spelljammer listserv and Usenet (rec.games.frp.dnd) for a while.

Oh man, I remember starting college and discovering Usenet and rec.games.frp.dnd. Got me through the dark times when TSR suddenly stopped publishing material and no one knew what the hell was going on.

 

[ZzarkLinux]

Thanks, wrong link. Think I found it now.

Skills & Powers
Chapter 1: Character Points and Generating Backgrounds.
Welcome to Player's Options Skills & Powers
This unveils new roleplaying possibilities without increasing the complexity of AD&D (2e)
Every time a character gains a level, he gains 3 to 5 character points. The character point system is a new concept to the AD&D game.

Wait, WTH is this? I'm not even a 2e gamer and I'm offended! This is literally the 2e version of "4e Essentials". It's pure money grab, and like a suggestive finger to existing CoreBook owners.

For the unaware, 4e "Essentials" was basically a re-release of the PHB in softback form where all the class designs & assumptions were incompatible with the original Player's Handbook. It was pure money grab re-releasing content, and it caused me (and many others) to jump ship on 4e.

This isn't Splat. Splat would reference the original system ! This is invalidating an existing system for pure money grab. Splat is good, but S&P isn't splat, it's moneygrab ! Bad TSR!

 

[billd91]

Thanks, wrong link. Think I found it now.

Skills & Powers
Chapter 1: Character Points and Generating Backgrounds.
Welcome to Player's Options Skills & Powers
This unveils new roleplaying possibilities without increasing the complexity of AD&D (2e)
Every time a character gains a level, he gains 3 to 5 character points. The character point system is a new concept to the AD&D game.

Wait, WTH is this? I'm not even a 2e gamer and I'm offended! This is literally the 2e version of "4e Essentials". It's pure money grab, and like a suggestive finger to existing CoreBook owners.

For the unaware, 4e "Essentials" was basically a re-release of the PHB in softback form where all the class designs & assumptions were incompatible with the original Player's Handbook. It was pure money grab re-releasing content, and it caused me (and many others) to jump ship on 4e.

This isn't Splat. Splat would reference the original system ! This is invalidating an existing system for pure money grab. Splat is good, but S&P isn't splat, it's moneygrab ! Bad TSR!

DUDE! Lighten up. PO was basically an experiment, and for most of it, one that didn't make it to the mainstream. That said, plenty of ideas made their way into 3e in some form.

And as much as I don't particularly like 4e, Essentials wasn't just a money grab - it was born partly out of the idea of trying to attract back those of us who didn't like the initial form of 4e (though I can understand some vexation at the choices made in how to publish the specific volumes). It didn't particularly work, but I give them good marks for trying.

 

[TwoSix]

DUDE! Lighten up. PO was basically an experiment, and for most of it, one that didn't make it to the mainstream. That said, plenty of ideas made their way into 3e in some form.

And as much as I don't particularly like 4e, Essentials wasn't just a money grab - it was born partly out of the idea of trying to attract back those of us who didn't like the initial form of 4e (though I can understand some vexation at the choices made in how to publish the specific volumes). It didn't particularly work, but I give them good marks for trying.

Hey now, I respect someone who can still get riled up by a game supplement from 1995.

 

[Ath'kethin]

Hey now, I respect someone who can still get riled up by a game supplement from 1995.

Not even the supplement itself - the IDEA of the supplement, derived from a few sentences about it. Kudos!

 

[AriochQ]

More than anything else, I think it was because everything was new!

As an 11 y.o. playing in 1978 there wasn't much out there relating to fantasy 'culture'. The main source was novels, a few magazines, and almost no movies (stop action Jason and the Argonauts! lol). My friends and I devoured Tolkien, Moorcock, Lieber, and Howard. After that, things began to thin considerably. D&D expanded our horizons and our imaginations. It also led to an explosion of mainstream fantasy, which is still going on.

The kids drawn to D&D in those days tended to be the braniac nerdy types, and it gave them an instant peer group (besides chess club, debate team, or computer club lol). I still remember our discussion on the correct pronunciation of "Melee".

The rule system had it's flaws, but it did the job and learning the minutia was part of the fun (You use speed factor?!).

3rd/3.5 turned D&D into a min/max game. 4th ed. turned it into Magic Cards. 5th ed. brought it back to it roots, which accounts for its current renaissance.

 

[ZzarkLinux]

DUDE! PO was basically an experiment, and for most of it, one that didn't make it to the mainstream. That said, plenty of ideas made their way into 3e in some form.

I guess you liked Skills & Powers? Sorry, didn't mean to offend you. I just want my PHB to be relevant. I worry about showing up at a table with just my PHB and being told "Sorry. We use Essentials Character Points here. You need another purchase to contribute at our table".

I guess that's what I miss about 2e: You could purchase the PHB and show up at any table ready to contribute. The PHB was gospel, unyielding and all powerful.

Hey now, I respect someone who can still get riled up by a game supplement from 1995.

The golden years man. The golden years of RPGs. The golden years of videogaming. The golden years before Microsoft. You can only take away so many of a man's "Golden Years" before he become a rageing internet grump.

 

[Shasarak]

I loathe the concept of multiclassing, and 2nd's multiclassing seems imba. It leads to people spending hours building a character, and they never actually play the character at a table! In 2nd Edition players actually sat at the table and fought monsters. Nowadays in 3rd & 4th all that players do is read option books, compare stats, and post online. They get their "D&D Fix" without ever going to a table!

That is a great point!

I used to love spending hours making characters in 2e! Much better then wasting all that time making up a backstory.

 

[Dorian_Grey]

Just as a note on Skills & Powers - I understand why a lot of people don't like them, but as a DM during that time period they were, frankly, invaluable for world building. I don't think they should have called them Player's Options, but instead DM Options. To this day I still use all of them. What I like is that you can create any concept of character classes and races for beginning the game - and know that pretty much anything else will still work okay. Now, if a whole bunch of players showed up with a whole bunch of stuff picked randomly, I could see the problem - but I'm willing to exercise a little discipline at the table.

Cause when I was a young gamer, we had to walk UP HILL both ways just to roll our dice.. and we didn't even have dice! We had boulders! You pushed a boulder down a hill and counted how many trees/people/stones/livestock were run over! That's how you rolled THAC0! IN THE SNOW! IN AUGUST! You kids these days have it easy I tell you! EASY! What with your rock music and your pants around your ankles. *Grumble grumble*

 

[ccs]

Just as a note on Skills & Powers - I understand why a lot of people don't like them, but as a DM during that time period they were, frankly, invaluable for world building.

Eh, I've found that a healthy dose of imagination does just as well.