What is missing from 4E

[I'm A Banana]

I think the player is referring to the ability to snuff out an "fearsome" opponent in 1-2 rounds.

I think it's more the ability to do things far and above the human norm, to change the world with a casual action, to shape reality by your very will, to fullfill those power fantasies that every semi-impotent human has, to control their own fate.

It's a very appealing side of many fantasy games, but it is not so very present in 4e.

Part of this can be solved with the DM. Give them chances to change the world through narrative. They are Heroes, after all. They can turn back time, change fate, raise the dead, slay the monster no one else can slay...you just need to put that in the game from the DM's side, rather than letting the players tell you when they do that.

You could also just put that back in. Make Wish a ritual. Give them wings of flying. Screw balance, the game is supposed to be about fun. The DM will have to pay a little more attention to everything to make sure it's still a challenge, but that's how you fix it.

For the most part, though, 4e delivers a lot less on this than previous editions. He's right to miss it. You can kind of fix it, but if it's not worth it to fix it, you could always go back to 3e/Pathfinder.

 

[Shroomy]

I think it's more the ability to do things far and above the human norm, to change the world with a casual action, to shape reality by your very will, to fullfill those power fantasies that every semi-impotent human has, to control their own fate.

It's a very appealing side of many fantasy games, but it is not so very present in 4e.

While I see your point, almost all of the examples the OP gave were in regards to combat. The two refences to magic items probably refer to combat too.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I think it's more the ability to do things far and above the human norm, to change the world with a casual action, to shape reality by your very will, to fullfill those power fantasies that every semi-impotent human has, to control their own fate.

It's a very appealing side of many fantasy games, but it is not so very present in 4e.

Part of this can be solved with the DM. Give them chances to change the world through narrative. They are Heroes, after all. They can turn back time, change fate, raise the dead, slay the monster no one else can slay...you just need to put that in the game from the DM's side, rather than letting the players tell you when they do that.

You could also just put that back in. Make Wish a ritual. Give them wings of flying. Screw balance, the game is supposed to be about fun. The DM will have to pay a little more attention to everything to make sure it's still a challenge, but that's how you fix it.

For the most part, though, 4e delivers a lot less on this than previous editions. He's right to miss it. You can kind of fix it, but if it's not worth it to fix it, you could always go back to 3e/Pathfinder.

The player I described is largely out of luck. I'm not really inclined to put "powah" back into the game, as I and the majority of us are happy with how things are. He could DM a new 3.5E game himself(since nobody else will run it), but four of us are unlikely to join that game, so that really isn't viable either.

As for "powah" in the game, I find it causes more problems than it is worth.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

While I see your point, almost all of the examples the OP gave were in regards to combat. The two refences to magic items probably refer to combat too.

Actually, both what he means and what I mean applies equally outside of combat. Combat situations are just the most obvious examples.

 

[Zsig]

What is missing from 4e?

Rules.

Rules are missing from 4e, although, I don't miss them, at all.

 

[Shroomy]

Actually, both what he means and what I mean applies equally outside of combat. Combat situations are just the most obvious examples.

My mistake then.

 

[delericho]

We have 12 players (not in any one game, but in our collection of friends).
Of those 12, 2 prefer 3.x over 4.
Of the 12, 3 are DMs.
Of the 3, none are willing to run a 3.x campaign.

The 2 that prefer 3.x miss that same thing: phenominal cosmic power. The DMs, however, cannot justify the work that a 3.x game requires from a DM to run that system into the higher levels.

A few options:

1) Would the DMs be prepared to run one of the Pathfinder APs? Those cut out a lot of the extra work, including almost all the prep time (especially at high levels).

2) Failing that, why don't the 2 players who prefer 3e DM their own game(s)?

3) If, for whatever reason, that's not an option, is it possible to recruit some new players and another (3e) DM?

4) Failing that, I think they're simply out of luck.

 

[Halivar]

And here I thought 4E was supposed to be a "kewl superpowers" game. Or so I hear. Over. And over again.

 

[justanobody]

an working economic system

 

[Derren]

And here I thought 4E was supposed to be a "kewl superpowers" game. Or so I hear. Over. And over again.

The characters have superpowers, not the items.