D&D 5E What is Quality?

[Maxperson]

except outside of a scientific study, the numbers are meant to convey information that they are not always conveying

It still does, though. I have had conversations very similar to this many, many times in my life.

Friend: "How hot do you think it is?
Me: "Feels like it's 94 degrees today."
Friend: ::ulls out phone and checks::: "It says that it's 83 here."
Me: "Oh, wow! I was way off. Probably because it's humid out."

Even though it still felt hotter to me, it did in fact convey information to me that I didn't have. Whether that's useful or not is very debatable, but I did get new objective information.

 

[Aldarc]

So ... what you are saying is that to that person, that art is superior, because it has more emotional value.

I would advise (a) not asking leading questions and (b) equivocating here with what is meant by "superior."

 

[payn]

to me (in CT New England USA) yes unless it is raining and breezy both 80 and 95 is short weather (and maybe even if it is). However again my example was my aunt and uncle who (have WAY more money than I do) travel to diffrent states and even out of the country some what regularly (I can not remember a year other then the 2020 lock down that they did not take at least 3 months of trips) travel... and as they have told me before 90's in Arizona is cooler than high 70s or low 80s in Georgia.

heck. I went to Georgia one September wearing shorts with my buddy and my girlfriend at the time... we wanted to go to the beach and wanted AC on... my dad and his wife who live down there were in coats.

Your body adjusts to temperature like climate. I have folks down in AZ. I went down there in January once and got yelled at for opening a window because it was only 60. Felt awesome to me becasue I was used to a super dry -10 at the time.

I agree with your family, I'll take AZ dry heat any day over swampy FL.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah, that's not true.

sigh I am so sick of people telling other people there lived experience isn't true... your argument falls flat whenever it leaves the lab of theory and goes into the real world.

Sure, there are other factors like humidity ("It's a dry heat!") and wind ("The wind chill will be ...") and cloud cover and precipitation (all of these are included in weather forecasts), but do you know what?

I know that if you are trying to express information the information of the amount of kinetic energy is useless to most people.

The actual temperature is kind of important.

in theory yeah... but as this thread is showing (and boy are you getting a good time argueing over it) this is not what we are talking about.

objective measure that is kinda super important ... you know, for stuff like temperature over time ....

okay... in scientific studies... not a problem. in day to day life it becomes quite subjective though

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It still does, though. I have had conversations very similar to this many, many times in my life.

Friend: "How hot do you think it is?
Me: "Feels like it's 94 degrees today."
Friend: ::ulls out phone and checks::: "It says that it's 83 here."
Me: "Oh, wow! I was way off. Probably because it's humid out."

Even though it still felt hotter to me, it did in fact convey information to me that I didn't have. Whether that's useful or not is very debatable, but I did get new objective information.

but do you understand the objective info you got is a number on a scale we made up right... like a thac0 of 17 and a +2 to hit or 19% chance... they CAN all mean the same thing (as you or someone else pointed out we even have different scales)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Your body adjusts to temperature like climate. I have folks down in AZ. I went down there in January once and got yelled at for opening a window because it was only 60. Felt awesome to me becasue I was used to a super dry -10 at the time.

I agree with your family, I'll take AZ dry heat any day over swampy FL.

exactly but people will argue 60 means 60

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

sigh I am so sick of people telling other people there lived experience isn't true... your argument falls flat whenever it leaves the lab of theory and goes into the real world.

No. That’s not at all what is going on. Your lived experience is, as I keep saying, subjective.

But you keep saying that the objective measure of temperature doesn’t convey the information. That’s wrong. It does. It conveys the objective temperature that everyone agrees upon. How you feel about it doesn’t change what the temperature is. Just like the number of pages in a book is objective, but whether you think it is short or long is subjective.

Same with time. Ignoring relativity issues, if 10 second pass, then 10 seconds pass. It doesn’t matter if your subjective experience is that it felt like 60 seconds.

 

[Maxperson]

exactly but people will argue 60 means 60

Probably because 60 does mean 60. The subjective feel doesn't alter that. Nor does it prevent you from receiving the information that the objective numbers are meant to convey. At no time is the objective number meant to convey to you how hot it feels. It gives you other information that may or may not be useful to you. Usefulness isn't relevant to the information being provided. Hell, you may not even understand all the information being conveyed. As a layman, I guarantee you that someone with a masters degree in meteorology will understand more of what the objective temperature number conveys than I do.

 

[HammerMan]

even this (and I totally get where you are going) isn't really objective to everyone. We made up the temperature scale
-snip-
like the "what is quality" of this thread, "what is hot and what is cold" some how still causes disagreement.

We’ll you probed your point @GMforPowergamers people are argue ing with you over this just as much as the quality issue.

This amazes me

 

[Micah Sweet]

even this (and I totally get where you are going) isn't really objective to everyone. We made up the temperature scale and what it measures. However as objectively true that 98 is a higher number than 80 is... weather that makes it HOTTER is something I still see people argue. Is 98 rainy with a breeze hotter than 80 sunny with high humidity?

now of course this leads to "is it a dry heat?" to witch i respond "an oven is dry heat, it's still hot!!!"


II bring this up because my aunt and uncle SWEAR that 95 in arazonia is cooler than 78 in Georgia.

When I went to Las Vegas I was surprised at the heat I could stand (not saying much i no like heat...i like cold... I can always put more on, but i stay as covered as possible as a public service)


like the "what is quality" of this thread, "what is hot and what is cold" some how still causes disagreement.

The concern i have is that if every measure is subjective, not only is expertise meaningless, discussion itself rapidly becomes so as well. Who cares about what anyone thinks if every opinion is equally weighted?