What is role playing?

[Frosty]

Meta-gaming.

Don't think so. Meta means beyond, transcending. I guess the word meanwhile can be traced back to meta.

Perhaps the three stages of playing range from Roll to Rule to Role?

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Putting things into context, "game" is the initial operative work in regards to RPG.

So, first and formost the RPG is something that is done for amusement, to enjoy oneself.

The arguments about "role-playing" versus "roll-playing" generally leave out "rule-playing," I must add.

The comments in regards to the players assuming a character role are spot on. however, that assumption doen not necessarily mean that they must speak as if they were that character, but it should require that they attempt to take game actions that are in accord with the role they have assumed.

In all, the balance of the game form should be comprised of many elements of play, including chance, for that is oiperative in real life ans so is logically included even in the fantasy milieu where many imaginary things exist that are not of this world.

The RPG is not simply, or mainly, story telling. That is a part of the game, but not the principle part or it, any more that theatrical impressions of the make-believe characters are. The game form is comprised of those and many other elements including exploration, problem solving,combat, intregue, politics, economics, chance, and whatever else one finds enjoyable in the mix. Of course that mis of things differs from group to group. That's a great part of the appeal of the RPG. It is adaptable in content so as to provide fun from those who like to hack and those who love to yak....and al that lies between.

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[S'mon]

I'd say that what are called 'role-playing games' range from simple position-identification with a single piece ("your character") in a skirmish wargame, to improvisational theatre. The former is often called roll-playing, and the latter role-playing. I think there's confusion re the latter though - part of the problem is with language, ie the word 'play' - you can "play a game" (wargame and other games usage), but you can also "play a part" (theatre/actor usage.)

"I make a Diplomacy roll to Convert" sounds like roll-playing, and is clearly _not_ playing a role in the improvisational theatre/acting sense, whereas making an impassioned in-character speech is 'playing a role' in that sense. But both may involve greater or lesser amounts of 'position identification', of the player indentifying with the PC making the conversion attempt.

 

[Bonedagger]

If both are "role-playing" in this context it becomes increasingly hard to discuss this topic. We need a third term.

On one end we have roll-playing, in the middle we find role-playing and on the other end we have... what?

Roll <> Role <> Diceless

 

[Frosty]

I'd say that what are called 'role-playing games' range from simple position-identification with a single piece ("your character") in a skirmish wargame, to improvisational theatre. The former is often called roll-playing, and the latter role-playing. I think there's confusion re the latter though - part of the problem is with language, ie the word 'play' - you can "play a game" (wargame and other games usage), but you can also "play a part" (theatre/actor usage.)

"I make a Diplomacy roll to Convert" sounds like roll-playing, and is clearly _not_ playing a role in the improvisational theatre/acting sense, whereas making an impassioned in-character speech is 'playing a role' in that sense. But both may involve greater or lesser amounts of 'position identification', of the player indentifying with the PC making the conversion attempt.

I'm with this guy.

Roll-playing - Role-playing - Part-playing

 

[Frosty]

Putting things into context, "game" is the initial operative work in regards to RPG.

So, first and formost the RPG is something that is done for amusement, to enjoy oneself.

The arguments about "role-playing" versus "roll-playing" generally leave out "rule-playing," I must add.

The comments in regards to the players assuming a character role are spot on. however, that assumption doen not necessarily mean that they must speak as if they were that character, but it should require that they attempt to take game actions that are in accord with the role they have assumed.

In all, the balance of the game form should be comprised of many elements of play, including chance, for that is oiperative in real life ans so is logically included even in the fantasy milieu where many imaginary things exist that are not of this world.

The RPG is not simply, or mainly, story telling. That is a part of the game, but not the principle part or it, any more that theatrical impressions of the make-believe characters are. The game form is comprised of those and many other elements including exploration, problem solving,combat, intregue, politics, economics, chance, and whatever else one finds enjoyable in the mix. Of course that mis of things differs from group to group. That's a great part of the appeal of the RPG. It is adaptable in content so as to provide fun from those who like to hack and those who love to yak....and al that lies between.

Cheerio,
Gary

I agree with what you say but how do you express a desire to have more of the storytelling and less of the other stuff?
If you say you want more "role-playing" an argument on semantics seems most likely to ensue. Any tips?

 

[Pielorinho]

I think Luke Skywalker is a great example.

If I'm DMing and someone creates his character, telling me that he's an orphan who wants to fight evil since it destroyed his parents and that he's got a cool sword and that a prophecy says he'll someday win, I might not think he's a good roleplayer.

What makes Luke a great character is that
-He's impetuous and naive and arrogant, and sometimes does really stupid things in order to show off.
-He's whiny in the face of authority.
-He's nervous around pretty women, especially princesses.
-He's got funny robot familiars.

Roleplaying, IMO, involves coming up with quirks and complications to the character that reach beyond the stereotype, and then playing to those quirks and complications.

An elvish druid isn't necessarily interesting, but one who smells strongly of cats, who seems to know a crazy hermit outside of every village, who despises untruths and interrupts any lying PC with an honest explanation of what's going on, who gets overexcited by easy fights and afterwards does a little bouncy dance, might be more interesting.

A mage who's fascinated by forbidden learning isn't necessarily a great roleplaying opportunity. A mage who keeps a very secret diary, who mouths words as she reads them, who visits her beloved sister and nephews every chance she gets, who has a weakness for pastry, might become more interesting.

A cynical ex-guard who's become an adventurer isn't necessarily a great roleplaying opportunity. But if the guard appealed to a demon for help hiding him from Internal Affairs, and if the demon turned the guard into a woman, and if the guard traveled for awhile with a band of demonhunters, and if the guard chews betel nuts and mocks wizards under her breath, then you've got something to work with.

I've nothing against roll-playing (or, as we call it when we do it, beer-and-pretzels gaming). But it's a very different style of play from what I consider role-playing, where there's a strong focus on creating compelling, complicated, vivid characters.

Daniel

 

[Frosty]

An elvish druid isn't necessarily interesting, but one who smells strongly of cats, who seems to know a crazy hermit outside of every village, who despises untruths and interrupts any lying PC with an honest explanation of what's going on, who gets overexcited by easy fights and afterwards does a little bouncy dance, might be more interesting.

One of several great examples!

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Re: Re: What is role playing?

To me an important part of role-playing is character development. Not only development statwise. A good role-playing scenario makes the player's ask and answer questions about their characters. Questions like what makes them tick, what they fear and what they cherish.

Your half-orc is a bit too static in my opinion to be a great character. Sure, he is devout but it seems he is geared towards combat. A great character is a multi-layered character, not simply an excuse to fight battles. Why is the half-orc so devout? And if he is so good as to be a paladin does he ever have doubts about killing? Does he ever re-evaluate his views on ultimate goodness?

I realise that you enjoyed that character immensly and I'm happy for that. However, I know from experience that there can be much more to role-playing than that.

It wasn't my PC. I DM this game. Anyway why was he so devout? He despised his orc blood, he felt he was dirty and ultimately unworthy. He constantly worried that his orc heritage would assert itself and he would turn to evil. This led him to overcompensate. Yes he was geared towards battles, that was what he was, the sword arm of heironous. I know from experience that a PC can be deeper as well, I've been playing since 1984. But this player always played his PC as he would react, even if the party needs were hindered in the process. I don't see the difference between a player making a diplomacy check to try and convert someone or having a player make up a passionate speech. Not every player is good at that, but his PC may be. I have never viewd a RPG as "improvisational theater" myself. I'm not trying to tell a story. There is no overall arc to the game. The players are writing their own stories by how the play the game.

P.S. some PC's are shallow, just like real life people.

 

[Desdichado]

EGG:
In all, the balance of the game form should be comprised of many elements of play, including chance, for that is oiperative in real life ans so is logically included even in the fantasy milieu where many imaginary things exist that are not of this world.

Y'know, that's why I despise folks who just dismiss social skills and say "roleplay it out." Where's the chance in that? Where's the tension if you blow your roll for Intimidation, or whatever? Rolling the dice adds a much needed tension, risk and potential for dramatic success or failure that I think it's integral even in highly "role-playing" "story-telling" types of games.

But maybe that's just me. I hear the "just roleplay it out" an awful lot, so it must be a popular way of doing things.