D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
You can do plenty "weird and exotic" with any race.

If you're that bored, I doubt a new avatar is going to change anything.
You can do plenty "weird and exotic" with any race if the weird and exotic thing that you want to play exists that world.

It's almost like people have preferences and if they have to go far enough down the list of things they like, they might not want to play.

Just like a DM can cut 20 races out the setting, a player can cut 100 PC ideas out their catalog. Both are valid actions.
 

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Oofta

Legend
You can do plenty "weird and exotic" with any race if the weird and exotic thing that you want to play exists that world.

It's almost like people have preferences and if they have to go far enough down the list of things they like, they might not want to play.

Just like a DM can cut 20 races out the setting, a player can cut 100 PC ideas out their catalog. Both are valid actions.

If everyone at the table is playing a "weird and exotic" race while no one in the game world bats an eye, is it really weird or exotic?

But different people game for different reasons, so you do you. It probably just won't be at my table.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Why would I though? I'm about giving more options, not less. What's the point of playing D&D without using the stuff that D&D comes with? If I wanted a more focused, limited game, I'd play that game. Pugmire if I wanted to do furries, for example.

I really don't get the impulse to take D&D, strip out large swaths of the game, and then play. What's the point?
Because limitations help define the game and add flavor. You wouldn't want to. Others would. Neither way is wrong or better than the other.
 

loverdrive

Prophet of the profane (She/Her)
Clearly, you consider having an argument is more fun than playing D&D. And if arguments are all you love, arguments are all you will get, but the rule for D&D is the DM rules so everyone can get on with playing the game.
I don't think something like:

-- You hear heavy footsteps approaching. Two or three pairs. Sounds like a guard patrol.
-- Dude, we are in the slums. What these bastards doing here?
-- Hm, right. Scratch that. So, you hear...

Or

-- Miss! So, he swings his...
-- Wait, what? Goblin has 23 AC? You serious?
-- Damn, I've got too excited. That's no ordinary goblin, that mofo is just brimming with some weird magical energy, almost levitating.
-- Okay, that changes things. Then I'm not gonna run up to it and just attack.
-- So, you enter the cavern. Several goblins are there, en garde and one of them has eyes glowing purple. You can sense otherworldly power emanating from him. What ya gonna do?

Constitutes "having an argument".

The thing is: if someone is raising an eyebrow, then the GM screwed up -- either by failing to describe situation properly or by failing to convey their intention. And they better fix said screw up, than to just press on, while not everyone is on the same page.

It's like the first tenet of good GMing: "hold on lightly". Do I really need to explain that?
 

JiffyPopTart

Bree-Yark
I've played plenty of RPGs with only humans, and characters are plenty diverse.

If you think purple skin and knobs on your head make your character interesting then you need to get a better imagination.
Or maybe by diversity people are talking about the crunchy parts of a character and not the roleplaying aspect of them?
 

I think that the DM that governs their D&D game by "what's physically realistic" is often going to find themselves at odds with the crazy/heroic things D&D characters are likely to attempt and which they should be capable of.
I used to think this way, and at times, certain things would bother me because I couldn't picture what the character did in my head. At least not without something supernatural or magical going on. But as I played more and more, and described at times the player's actions, I began to be able to do it and still keep it within the grounds of reality. 4e was really difficult, and there were times it wasn't possible. But, for the most part, it is.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I don't think something like:

-- You hear heavy footsteps approaching. Two or three pairs. Sounds like a guard patrol.
-- Dude, we are in the slums. What these bastards doing here?
-- Hm, right. Scratch that. So, you hear...

Or

-- Miss! So, he swings his...
-- Wait, what? Goblin has 23 AC? You serious?
-- Damn, I've got too excited. That's no ordinary goblin, that mofo is just brimming with some weird magical energy, almost levitating.
-- Okay, that changes things. Then I'm not gonna run up to it and just attack.
-- So, you enter the cavern. Several goblins are there, en garde and one of them has eyes glowing purple. You can sense otherworldly power emanating from him. What ya gonna do?

Constitutes "having an argument".

The thing is: if someone is raising an eyebrow, then the GM screwed up -- either by failing to describe situation properly or by failing to convey their intention. And they better fix said screw up, than to just press on, while not everyone is on the same page.

It's like the first tenet of good GMing: "hold on lightly". Do I really need to explain that?
There are many different ways to be a good DM, including ways that other people would consider to be bad. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
A DM can most certainly limit you form making a specific interesting character. Multiple times.
Absolutely. I've had times where I applied for an online game (which is 99.9% of my gaming) and been rejected each time I tried an interesting character, something I spent multiple hours working on a brief but rich backstory (something that can be summarized in two paragraphs), for "light and transient reasons," as it were. Whereas others with shoestring story but DM-favored character options (race and class primarily, since that's the only thing present across various editions) got in. Likewise, I've also been brought into games where I was favored because I did have a thematic, coherent character concept, even if it involved things that might otherwise raise eyebrows (like a gestalt Druid/Wizard with Planar Shepherd levels). It's most assuredly a spectrum, and it absolutely can be the DM who is the obstructionist.

You're overly pessimistic about this. It's not as if the DM is sitting around waiting to poopoo your ideas.
Well, I've seen it happen. I've also seen people explicitly say--on this board and others--that they enjoy banning things popular with other people but not them. There's absolutely a minority group within those-who-favor-high-detail-that-forbids-expansion that enjoy banning things, and if there's daylight between that and "waiting to poopoo [my] ideas," I'm not seeing it.

Because there is insane amount of stuff. You can easily cut swathes of it and still have perfectly functioning game.
"Perfectly functioning" is a worthless standard of quality, appropriate only to things that function and do nothing else, like washing machines.

And, honestly? "PHB+1" in 5e is not "an insane amount of stuff." Even if every player picked a different +1, it's still not an insane amount of stuff. With just the core books + Xanathar's, Mordenkainen's, Tasha's, Volo's, Wildemount, SCAG, and Eberron, and ignoring reprints, I'm counting 35 races, and that's including some really out-there stuff like Zombie, Skeleton, or Kuo-Toa. (Note that I exclude subrace from this count for exactly the same reason that I would exclude subclass for a discussion about how many classes exist in 5e. I also excluded the Custom Lineage because it's specifically meant as a one-size-fits-all structure.)

And of those 35 races, you're only going to see 5 in most games. Really, it's 5 out of something-less-than-35, because there's two more books than there are players in a typical game, three if you count the DMG.

Virtually all professionally written setting books allow for pretty much any race in the game. And, they always include space for stuff to be added later.
Yep. Even the oft-cited Dark Sun makes room for variations or exceptions. Re-configuring the Dragonborn as Dray (and radically changing their culture as a result), for an official example. It is, of course, a good example for a place where there's a hard-coded reason why you don't find gnomes or goliaths or whatever, but The Tablelands are (potentially) a pretty small chunk of Athas--and even parts of it wildly diverge from the normal theme, such as the Crimson Savannah or the Last Sea. While it is reasonable to say, "I'm not willing to let you play a gnome, that's outside my comfort zone for the kind of game I want to run" or even "...that would make your character too much the center of attention--everyone would want to either help you or destroy you, which is too much early on," it is incorrect to say that nothing whatever could be done.

The Tablelands aren't more than a thousand miles on a side (=1 mil square miles). Them plus the Crimson Savannah (at least from what maps I have access to) barely make up a third of the continental US, to say nothing of an entire continent like North America (9.4 mil square miles) or Africa (11.7 mil), hell not even Australia (~3 mil), and that landmass actually resembles the Tablelands to some small extent. The notion that another continent exists--perhaps one far less scoured by Rajaat's mad genocide--is hardly untenable, especially since the aforementioned Savannah is much wetter than the Tablelands. Who knows what might lie beyond the horizon of the Sea of Silt? Who knows where the horrific storms that wet the Savannah come from?

Again, I am NOT saying you HAVE to do this. You emphatically, explicitly DO NOT. Saying, "I want to run a classic Dark Sun game, so only the described surviving races," is perfectly acceptable, and that means no pixies, no lizardmen, no gnomes, etc. What I am saying is that saying "Athas!" and acting like your hands are tied against your will isn't kosher, like even if you wanted to you somehow "can't." Even without invoking the "I'm the DM I can do whatever I want" rule, the lands beyond the horizon can always serve you, they are inexhaustible sources of wonder, mystery, exceptions, etc. If you choose not to, that choice is on you. As long as they don't go overboard about it, which will always be a contextual thing and thus no hard universal line can be drawn, I don't see why even in Dark Sun, a player couldn't ask to talk about it. Again, assuming this is BEFORE the player has officially joined up, during the "I'm looking for a game, what are you offering, will it work for me" phase because obviously that's when you do the talking-it-out stuff.

If everyone at the table is playing a "weird and exotic" race while no one in the game world bats an eye, is it really weird or exotic?
Absolutely. Do we really need to go into why a Pixar supervillain's logic is busted? Do we really have to dress down the "when everyone is special, no one is" argument for all its flaws?

Ugh, and I thought the "death of the author" tangent was bad...
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Well, I've seen it happen. I've also seen people explicitly say--on this board and others--that they enjoy banning things popular with other people but not them. There's absolutely a minority group within those-who-favor-high-detail-that-forbids-expansion that enjoy banning things, and if there's daylight between that and "waiting to poopoo [my] ideas," I'm not seeing it.
Well, yeah. There will always be jerks and bad DMs. Those are so few and far between in real life, though, that I don't consider them when I'm making a statement like that. It goes without saying that a bad DM might do that.
 

The examples provided were detailed 'scientific' reasons for disallowing a player to do something. 'Science' is a poor choice of reasons to adjudicate things in D&D for a number of reasons. The biggest one is that, with few exceptions, D&D games are set in explicitly fictional worlds with fictional cosmology, where magic exists. And like it or not, magic trumps science.

A separate one is that using science this way can backfire when the player uses it to justify things the DM does not intend, leaving the DM with the choice to go along with it, or to engage in an imaginary science debate at the table. Which might be fun, but kinda pointless.

So in answer to your question, I don't know if that's what he's talking about specifically. But it does indicate a table where there is a significantly higher onboarding burden, and already some, to me, intrusive DMing.
Thanks for answering my question about why science is bad when creating a world.

If because magic exists is your only answer, then that is not a strong enough argument. I was asked to give a scenario where a DM would not allow a race. I made up a DM and gave physiological reasons why they would not allow a triton.
Next, was well what about all those other races underwater? I assume the DM wouldn't allow those either.
Next, was the suahagin. Could they exist. I assume the DM could by making divine intervention and still pointed out they don't live on land.
Next, was if they can't exist underwater how do these monsters exist? (Given a list of monsters). The DM explains all of them.
Next, but some of those answers aren't science based? Therefore, science is a bad way to justify the world.

No offense, but that is simply ridiculous. To not allow a race or creature for that matter into your DM'ing world based on physiology is equally as legitimate, if not more, than magic. Here is why:
  • Science follows rules. It gives stories/settings/characters internal logic. That helps create consistency. Consistency is the strong trademark of a well built fantasy world.
  • Magic follows rules. It gives stories/settings/characters internal logic. That helps create consistency. Consistency is the strong trademark of a well built fantasy world.

The magic you use in D&D follows rules. As does science.
 

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