What is the best way to generate balanced d20 characters?

Korimyr the Rat said:
I do the same thing, but I expand the table. I start with 25 point buy at first level, and then give out 1 extra point-buy point for levels 2-4, 2 extra for 5-8, 3 extra for 9-12, and so on.
I started doing that too (well standard array, but that is effectively 25 points)! The players really like it, because even "boring" levels (like fighter level 5...ouch!), there's a choice to be made on how to advance your character.

I think it also makes the MAD (Multiple Ability Dependancy) characters slightly more viable, because that normally is a problem with 25 point buy.

Rav
 

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We use 2 methods in our campaigns.

1) Standard Array (most like this for the balance between characters)

2) 25 point buy, choose your stats and then roll 3d6 for each stat in order taking the roll or the buy which ever is higher. What is nice about this is that everyone starts at the same base level, you can make what you want by choosing your stats but it allows for those different characters, wizard with a high Chr for example.
 

Well you can put me into the camp of I like rolling for stats. I don't see that high mods make a big difference. I think that a good DM will use CRs as a guideline, and smart players should even with low scores (except spell casting mods) usually be able to beat CRs that are 1-3 points above them. I played a FANTASTIC campaign where the DM was like "we are all mature, just pick whatever stats you want, if you go uber twink you get standard array" and it worked fantastically. I think that Point buy makes playing some classes almost impossible. Monk is a great example. You have to roll well, then you can play monk, but a fighter needs 2 good stats, a wizard (arguably) needs 1, a Monk or a Bard really need 4. Also many would argue that the monk or bard are not the best choices for classes anyway. So Point Buy punishes those that want to try a good role-playing experience by further hampering the "fantastically flavorful" bard.

In our current campaign we rolled stats and it is working out great. The players are smart however and some encounters are scary for the players (5 4th level characters Vs. 12 hobgoblins (6 with ranged weapons, 6 with melee)) and some are awesome because of smart players.

One of the latest encounters in the campaign was vs. 4 mounted human fighters (2) with 1 mounted fighter leader (4.) We finished that encounter with only our scout being wounded (he rushed ahead and got hit by a horse) and none of the fighters being wounded (thanks to pyrotechnics smoke cloud that got 3 of the horses and riders, a hold person on a rider, and a shatter on a military saddle) The DM was like WOW that was supposed to be a 5-6 round combat that lasted 2 fast rounds and no one was wounded. We captured the leader, and let the others go. I tell this story to illustrate it didn't matter WHAT our stats where (as long as we could cast the spells) we won because we used what resources we had and were Smert about it.

I am upset by the "balance" talk at the table. I think that people get hung up on the "balance" issue WAY too much. You say, "I know my players won't be pleased" Well that should be a red flag. I think that the players should have as much say in the determining of stats as the DM. They can make their characters and use one of the MANY online die rolling tools to e-mail you the results (that way they get 1 shot and they can't tamper with the results) Or they can make their characters and leave off the stat bonuses on their sheets (that is what our new player did), when they get their in 15 minutes they will be ready to play. Your options are limitless really. I just think that the standard 28-point method is played out, and limits options for the players. Even the D10 system allows for customizing the "standard array."

At level 3 try putting them Vs. CR 5s and see how things work out (regardless of their stats) The object of the game is to have fun. If you honestly think that the players won't be happy about their stats then do you expect them to be happy with the game in general. I have a new philosophy when it comes to games as well. If you want long-term games the players need to love their characters, and the setting. The adventures can be good/bad, but the general location and characters stay. I would rethink a stat choice that would upset the players.
 


I prefer the point-buy method as well, either 28 or 32 points, because I've found random rolling creates too much disparity between the PCs' abilities. I like to enforce a bit of equality among the characters; maybe it's not realistic, but it ensures a level playing field and no one feels like they got screwed by some bad stats. We all want to have fun and have equal opportunity to shine.

I've also just started a high-powered Eberron campaign where I used the 32 point buy method with 4 "bonus" points to use as a power-up (on a 1-for-1 basis) after the 32 points were allocated. This allowed the players to buy a 16 and a 14 and then bump them up to 18 and 16.
 

My current method for tabletop game is either 25 PB or 3/4d6 x6, optional reroll if mods total +3 or less. Ha resulted in a wide variety of stats but no obvious problems yet. I also let them have a +1 Inherent bonus/2 levels instead of +1 stat/4 levels, this is handy for rolled PCs as it lets them even up 'useless' stats.

For PBEM I'm using 28 PB and +1 Inherent/2 levels, again seems fine.

Previously for high-powered tabletop game I used 35 PB, which was ok. Before that I used "roll 3/4d6 as often as you like" which produced characters of around 50 PB (highest I saw was 56), this was not a very good idea - a party of such characters hits very hard and tends to think they're the bees knees, they don't think they need to rely on each other much, but are still fragile and while they'll massacre foes of equal CR they can still get massacred by CR+4 enemies.
 

Navar said:
At level 3 try putting them Vs. CR 5s and see how things work out (regardless of their stats)

I know how it works out. If the EL 5 is 3 CR2s it'll be an interesting fight but PCs will win. If it's 10 CR 1s they'll probably win easily if they have an area-effect spell, otherwise a tough fight. If it's a real single CR 5 like a troll, unless it loses initiative and the PCs are incredibly lucky, 90% of the time it will kill at least 1 PC, probably 2, and possibly TPK.
 


Well a troll will likley down 1-2 party members (I don't know about kill (-10 or greater)) but I think TPK is only a remote possiblity unless the Troll ambushes them or something. They have a base speed of 30 feet so a wizard with Exp. Retreit and the orb of fire or orb of Acid (lesser) could add in the final hit to down the Troll. If the party is mounted (a very real possiblity at level 3) then they SHOULD be able to take him down. Yes this would be a "Boss Fight" but again a smart group should be able to take out a troll. They would just have to stay out of its reach. Its AC is low enough that they should hit him with their 1 attack each round at least. With an int of 6 I doupt coupe de grace would be on its mind (It would likley try to down them all, then kill them.) Also the DM would likly not want a TPK so having him down a party member and then ignore the downed member would be a good DM tactic as well. Again though it would be a hard fight and I wouldn't be suppurized to see 1-2 of the party members downed.
 

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