What is the most complex TTRPG of all time?

[Blue Orange]

FWIW, Gygax himself struggled (and failed) to make another successful RPG. Sometimes you just catch lightning in a bottle once and it's hard to replicate.

 

[Greg K]

My answer is always Enforcers, a super hero setting in the near future that came out in 1987. A calculator is absolutely required as some of the derived statistics for your character was determined by calculating square roots. The back cover touts Enforcers as the "easiest, fastest, most flexible super-power role-playing game." Just a few lines down the writer's proudly proclaim "LOTUS compatible spread sheet program for online character sheets." For a certainly value of online of course. This was 1987 and most of us didn't have personal computers and those of us who did really weren't online in the sense that people are online today. We had no problem with GURPS but nobody in my group was touching this one.

I remember Enforcers. I looked at in the discount section of a game store, after reading about it online. After a few minutes perusing the rulebook, I put it down. I had played and created characters GURPS, Champions, and Rolemaster which can be time consuming in character generation, but I don't consider them complex as the non-math people in our group could generate characters.

 

[aramis erak]

I remember Enforcers. I looked at in the discount section of a game store, after reading about it online. After a few minutes perusing the rulebook, I put it down. I had played and created characters GURPS, Champions, and Rolemaster which can be time consuming in character generation, but I don't consider them complex as the non-math people in our group could generate characters.

Math, more math, still more math, and even more math. Not all of it doable with at-release readily available 4-function calculators.
If everyone has a scientific calculator to hand, playable but not great.

 

[jdrakeh]

Sword's Path Glory. Designed by an actual rocket scientist.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Sword's Path Glory. Designed by an actual rocket scientist.

Hah! Already called it!

 

[MGibster]

I remember Enforcers. I looked at in the discount section of a game store, after reading about it online. After a few minutes perusing the rulebook, I put it down. I had played and created characters GURPS, Champions, and Rolemaster which can be time consuming in character generation, but I don't consider them complex as the non-math people in our group could generate characters.

I'm glad to learn that I'm not the only person traumatize by who remembers Enforcers. I still can't believe it had instructions for using LOTUS 1-2-3. I can't believe I had LOTUS 1-2-3!

 

[aramis erak]

I'm glad to learn that I'm not the only person traumatize by who remembers Enforcers. I still can't believe it had instructions for using LOTUS 1-2-3. I can't believe I had LOTUS 1-2-3!

It's not the only game to suggest software... Hero had two different database programs written for it... D&D4E tried to sell one...

 

[MGibster]

It's not the only game to suggest software... Hero had two different database programs written for it... D&D4E tried to sell one...

But Enforcers came out late in Ronald Reagan's presidency at a time when the majority of Americans, even those who played D&D, didn't have personal computers at home. I think the Hero system came out of Champions (I never played either extensively) in the late 80s or early 90s. But Enforcers came out a few years before Hero did I think.

Remember the character generator that game with 3rd edition D&D? I actually liked it.

 

[aramis erak]

But Enforcers came out late in Ronald Reagan's presidency at a time when the majority of Americans, even those who played D&D, didn't have personal computers at home. I think the Hero system came out of Champions (I never played either extensively) in the late 80s or early 90s. But Enforcers came out a few years before Hero did I think.

Remember the character generator that game with 3rd edition D&D? I actually liked it.

Most TT gamers I knew DID have computers in the late 1980s. My house had 3 in 1982... An Adam, a Kaypro II, and my TS1000... ok, the TS1000 was almost useless... and I couldn't get Appleworks onto the Adam.
In 1987, most everyone I was gaming with had a computer in home. Many had, like me, a decent 8-bit machine in home. (even as 16 and 32 bit machines were becoming available.) Fewer of those would have had a spreadsheet; I had one on the Kaypro and on the Apple //e I got in 1986.
In 1981, I only had 2 friends with computers at home. By 1985, most of my friends had one; not having a computer in home was unusual amongst my TT gamer friends.
By 1987, most of my friends had computers. 1989 supposedly had about 15% of households having computers, and about 49% of households having under-18's... None of my friends were jocks, tho'. Musicians, computer geeks, and gamers. And lots of overlap.

Most of us didn't game in the rooms where the computers were, however... I was doing most of my written prep for games on computer only by about 1990... before I encountered Enforcers.

Percentage of U.S. households with a computer 1984-2010 | Statista

This graph shows the percentage of U.S.

www.statista.com

Share of U.S. family households with children, by type 1970-2022 | Statista

In 2022, about 40.26 percent of all family households in the United States had their own children under age 18 living in the household.

www.statista.com

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But Enforcers came out late in Ronald Reagan's presidency at a time when the majority of Americans, even those who played D&D, didn't have personal computers at home. I think the Hero system came out of Champions (I never played either extensively) in the late 80s or early 90s. But Enforcers came out a few years before Hero did I think.

Remember the character generator that game with 3rd edition D&D? I actually liked it.

Champions came out in 1981, Enforcers in 1987. HERO 4th was initially released in 1989.

Why 4th? Because HERO is merely Champions with the superhero stuff filed off- Champions 4Ed and HERO 4Ed are mechanically identical.