What is the point of GM's notes?

[Fenris-77]

When on meeting a given situation you can in effect go back in time and materially change things to your benefit in that situation, how in any way is that not a retcon?

Because you aren't changing anything that's been established in the fiction? That would be a retcon.

 

[Manbearcat]

You're not going back in time, and nothing established has been changed. All you're doing is establishing something previously unestablished.

Establishing things previously unestablished is a huge part of RPGs.

Like drinking (or not) coffee the prior morning.

Or having dreams the prior night.

Or when you last endured the common cold or a 24 hour flu.

Or who and where is the farrier of the town you hail from.

Probably 70 % of a PCs "actual" time in the shared imagined space is elided. Its offscreen.

So table time is devoted to perhaps 30 % of PCs "actual" time. Consequently, we're routinely having to backfill that elided time. That happens either when you're prompted by another participant at the table or its stipulated by you, the player, unprompted.

 

[Maxperson]

Blades in the Dark encourages you to skip the planning. So your insistence is clearly specific to your game and is only a matter of preference. It doesn't cause any table arguments, nor does continuity come crashing down around the characters. I think that's all that we can really say about it. There is no objectively correct way to handle this.

A lore check is just as much of a retcon.

This is simply not true. After reading the Flashback rule above, it is a retcon, but it's a legal one within the rules and in fact encouraged by the rules, and with costs and limitations. That doesn't prevent it from being an effective retcon. And it's certainly not the same as a lore check. A lore check is knowledge only, which is represented by a skill. The flashback gives examples of hiding guns under tables before you got to the game and after finding out that someone tipped off the inspector, going back through a flashback and making it you. That's very different from a simple lore check.

 

[Maxperson]

Because you aren't changing anything that's been established in the fiction? That would be a retcon.

You are changing the current fiction by going back and having done something in the past. That is also a retcon. The current timeline changes due to an action that you are going back and doing. It's just a more limited type of retcon, and apparently can fail since it can involve checks.

 

[Fenris-77]

You are changing the current fiction by going back and having done something in the past. That is also a retcon. The current timeline changes due to an action that you are going back and doing. It's just a more limited type of retcon, and apparently can fail since it can involve checks.

You are mistaking my definition of 'the fiction' I think, my bad, I should have been more specific. Fiction here is the diegetic game state, or what is established at the table through framing. You can flashback to add something to help you overcome the currently framed obstacle, but you can't change the thing itself. If there are attack dogs you can't make them disappear. If little Timmy died then he's dead, no flashback to save him.

This notion seems to be areal stumbling block. Hmm.

 

[Maxperson]

You are mistaking my definition of 'the fiction' I think, my bad, I should have been more specific. Fiction here is the diegetic game state, or what is established at the table through framing. You can flashback to add something to help you overcome the currently framed obstacle, but you can't change the thing itself. If there are attack dogs you can't make them disappear. If little Timmy died then he's dead, no flashback to save him.

This notion seems to be areal stumbling block. Hmm.

No. I get it. There was no steak laced with drugs in your bag a moment ago, but one flashback later and there is. Or there was no landmine in front of the charging dogs you had no idea were there, yet you flashed back and placed it in front of them. It's a retcon, but one that is limited in what it can do. You can't directly undo what is happening, but you ARE changing what is happening by adding to the scene. One moment what is happening is the dogs were charging in and will eat your face. The next moment what is happening is the dogs are charging over a landmine and being blown to hell.

I also understand that the game is designed this way, so I'm not going to call it a bad thing. It just won't ever happen in my D&D game were it WOULD be a bad thing.

 

[hawkeyefan]

This is simply not true. After reading the Flashback rule above, it is a retcon, but it's a legal one within the rules and in fact encouraged by the rules, and with costs and limitations. That doesn't prevent it from being an effective retcon. And it's certainly not the same as a lore check. A lore check is knowledge only, which is represented by a skill. The flashback gives examples of hiding guns under tables before you got to the game and after finding out that someone tipped off the inspector, going back through a flashback and making it you. That's very different from a simple lore check.

I wasn’t saying that a Flashback wasn’t a retcon in that post. I said if it is, then a Lore/Knowledge check is just as much of one.

 

[Maxperson]

I wasn’t saying that a Flashback wasn’t a retcon in that post. I said if it is, then a Lore/Knowledge check is just as much of one.

But it's not. A lore check can't place a bomb before you ever know that you need one. They aren't equal.

 

[hawkeyefan]

There was no steak laced with drugs in your bag a moment ago, but one flashback later and there is.

That’s not the right way of looking at it.

Instead, a moment ago we had no idea what was in your backpack. But but one flashback later and you brought drugged meat.

Just like, a moment ago we had no idea if you knew what the Sword of Kas was. But one Lore check later and you know it’s a powerful artifact, the sword of Kas, who cut the Hand and Eye from Vecna.

 

[Fenris-77]

But it's not. A lore check can't place a bomb before you ever know that you need one. They aren't equal.

They're mechanically the same. Something key to matter at hand has appeared in the fiction based on what gets billed as prior planning or prep.