What is the point of GM's notes?

[Bedrockgames]

So when people in this thread tried to use a stable definition of Fiction, without equivocation, and with specific attention to the subject at hand, why was this other thread so important? More important than anything anyone here had to say, obviously. But not important enough to quote or refer to? You spent a lot of time derailing conversation based on amorphous fears of the use of the word fiction, I think it's appropriate to dig into that a little.

To say that the definition here was stable, I would have to comb through and review as I wasn't reading this thread with that particular issue in mind. The other thread was important because it was one of the threads where the whole GMs notes thing arose as a pejorative. It was part of a cluster of threads around similar topics, where a lot of debate centered on 'the fiction' and the fiction was used in a way that really diminished sandbox and living world play (and I believe it was by equivocation). I don't want to revisit that here. I stated my reasons for objecting to the term the fiction. I have long objected to that term (in part because of how it has been used, in part because of its potential for misuses, and also, frankly because I find the phrasing 'the fiction' to be a little snooty as well). You are totally free to ignore my objections. Generally the times i object to it is when someone asks me to sign off on a particular use of it as an example of what I mean (and I almost always respond by saying that I would not use the term the fiction). How we got to this point in this discussion, I honestly don't know. I know I raised an objection some time ago, brought up equivocation and it has become the focus somehow. My feeling on it is, this is how I feel about the term, people aren't under any obligation to agree with or even consider my feelings on the term 'the fiction'. It really shouldn't be something that warrants a discussion this lengthy and redundant

 

[Bedrockgames]

No, you're again using words incorrectly. Facts cannot be your opinion. They exist or do not. You may have opinions about facts, but you can't say a thing is a fact and also your opinion -- this is a category error. You are saying that you think a thing exists, but this is an act of imagination, not of fact. Saying that it's your opinion that such equivocations as have been discussed exist is you imagining that they do. If this is the case, as I said, we can easily put this to bed as your imagination of bad things. No further need to argue.

I have trying to be clear that I believe, and I remember, that equivocation occurred around the fiction. That is an opinion about something that may be a fact.

 

[Fenris-77]

I gave a succicnt and stable defintion, more than once. What other people in other places may or may have not done is immaterial. I also dont really care that you find it snooty, it's not exactly a high falutin' word.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You spent a lot of time derailing conversation based on amorphous fears of the use of the word fiction, I think it's appropriate to dig into that a little.

Fenris, I have explained my view on the term as best I can. I don't think it is worth any digging on my part as what I get in response is hostile and seemingly angry posts. I have been responding to posts here all day. I don't really see any value when it seems like you guys have already made up your minds about me and my opinions on this matter.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I gave a succicnt and stable defintion, more than once. What other people in other places may or may have not done is immaterial. I also dont really care that you find it snooty, it's not exactly a high falutin' word.

Unsurprisingly I disagree. I think 'the fiction' has a very pretentious ring to it. Maybe I am outlier on that. Maybe 99% of people don't hear that in it. I am not the final arbiter here. But my honest response when I first heard it, and whenever I hear it now, is it seems a little 'high falutin' to me.

Yes, you did. But I don't believe that stable definition has been followed in the past. Nor do I believe it will be followed in the future.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I have trying to be clear that I believe, and I remember, that equivocation occurred around the fiction. That is an opinion about something that may be a fact.

Nope. You're either claiming its your opinion, or it is a fact. Here you are claiming it is a fact, and trying to also say it's just your opinion. That's attempting to equivocate -- you're trying to use opinion in one since, that it's just your thinking and so cannot be proven, but also trying to insinuate that opinions can be about fact and have the weight of facts as evidence of your claims. That this later definition is entirely incorrect is not stopping this argument from occurring -- you just made it here. So, congratulations, I guess, you earn an equivocation gold star for recursive equivocation!

 

[Bedrockgames]

Nope. You're either claiming its your opinion, or it is a fact. Here you are claiming it is a fact, and trying to also say it's just your opinion. That's attempting to equivocate -- you're trying to use opinion in one since, that it's just your thinking and so cannot be proven, but also trying to insinuate that opinions can be about fact and have the weight of facts as evidence of your claims. That this later definition is entirely incorrect is not stopping this argument from occurring -- you just made it here. So, congratulations, I guess, you earn an equivocation gold star for recursive equivocation!

Now I am just going to have to tune you out Ovin. I've entertained your posts long enough

 

[Ovinomancer]

Now I am just going to have to tune you out Ovin. I've entertained your posts long enough

Yes, this seems wise of you.

 

[Fenris-77]

All that needs doing is to ask a question. What do you mean by fiction? To which I reply, the narration or description of imaginary events and people (a dictionary definition buy the way). After that, what other people mean, or say, doesn't matter.

Your appreciation of hostility is missing the extent to which you've derailed this entire thread by worrying more about possible equivocation by unnamed people in unknown contexts, rather than the actual use and context of this actual thread.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Also, having more than one meaning is NOT equivocal.

I am not going to debate stuff like that with you any more Fenris. I provided the philosophical dictionary definition of both terms. If you feel that isn't adequate I don't know what to say (though I will state even the first dictionary definition is "being subject to two or more interpretations, and usually used to mislead or confuse". But it ultimately isn't that important. I was just using it as a handy descriptor of the The Fiction. I wasn't trying to start a debate about the meaning of words