What is the point of GM's notes?

[The-Magic-Sword]

I wonder if anyone here has experience with versions of this as part of a more traditional RPG?

There is a GURPS supplement called "Impulse Buys" which allows players to use earned character points (or, alternately, other pools of points) to affect the game state in ways that go well beyond the usual sorts of character spells and powers. I haven't read it carefully yet, but I think it is an attempt to mechanically support more narrative control to the players while still remaining compatible with the balancing mechanisms of GURPS. I see more references on the GURPS forums to people playing hybrid "PBtA-style" (for example) GURPS games. I'm curious how that might play out. I've been surprised over the past few years how much I enjoy allowing some meta-currency in my games, both as a player and a GM.

I like the idea, in theory, of allowing flashbacks even in dungeon crawls (which can have heist-like qualities).

Pathfinder 2e has a prescient planner feat that lets you 'have bought' things as you need them to simulate super-preparedness, but its not a big part of the system.

 

[uzirath]

Pathfinder 2e has a prescient planner feat that lets you 'have bought' things as you need them to simulate super-preparedness, but its not a big part of the system.

That sounds similar to some GURPS advantages that let you pull minor gear out of your backpack (or pockets or whatever). Usually, you can do it a certain number of times per session. My players tend to love advantages like that, but it doesn't seem like it's quite up to the level of the flashbacks mechanic from Blades. It's probably time to buy the game and read it. (After following so many of these 1000+ post conversations, I'm quite curious about this side of ttrpgs that I've never fully experienced.)

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

That sounds similar to some GURPS advantages that let you pull minor gear out of your backpack (or pockets or whatever). Usually, you can do it a certain number of times per session. My players tend to love advantages like that, but it doesn't seem like it's quite up to the level of the flashbacks mechanic from Blades. It's probably time to buy the game and read it. (After following so many of these 1000+ post conversations, I'm quite curious about this side of ttrpgs that I've never fully experienced.)

I actually just bought a copy myself, lol damn debate driven impulse purchases, i go to PBTA for a very different experience than PF2e, but thats a far cry from not liking them, i just play them on their own terms and get the stuff i can't get from them elsewhere.

 

[Fenris-77]

For me, its contextual-- Blades in the Dark is probably trying to simulate the literary device of a flashback as its used in a heist movie, you see the thing happening and either a suspensful question is posed (did that person really die? why is the person doing that? how'd we end up here? is this really it for our heroes?) and then we're shown the parts of the story that answer our questions. It builds tension because when we lack the set up, we don't know all the information that might reframe the events.

Basically, its a way of building towards a 'conclusion' when that conclusion takes place before its consequences (the heist itself,) by framing it this way, we get a standard build up of tension, followed by a pay off that answers the questions being posed by the action. The flashback itself is a way of ensuring the Questions precede the Answer in the telling of the story, when preparation definitionally takes place before the thing being prepared for.

So, "Did Rodney really just kill Joey and betray everyone, is the heist a failure, is our hero dead?" is a question that allows the preparation where "Rodney and Joey faked Joey's death to gain the mark's trust, and are using that to turn the tables and pull off the heist" to function as a plot twist, and a payoff for the tension build up, even though Rodney and Joey preparing the trick takes place before the scene where Joey is seemingly shot.

Great Pretender on Netflix is an excellent case study of the technique.

BITD is cool for including such a storytelling device as a mechanic, because its basically the protocols and techniques for TELLING heist stories and similar fiction projected onto a role.

Flashbacks are a little different than you describe above. First, and importantly, there is a cost in Stress to Flashback, and stress is a dear commodity in Blades, so there's a real decision point involved, not just a narrative desire. Second, they are more limited in scope than your post suggests. You cannot change a part of the existing fiction with a flashback. For example, if a character dies, as in is now currently dead, a flashback won't bring them back to life. Nor would a flashback make a locked door disappear. What flashbacks will do is allow the character and GM to collaborate on a scenario that would allow preparations for an obstacle. So if you encountered savage dogs you could flashback for drugged doggy treats, or if there's an unexpected guard you could flashback to engineer a diversion. Essentially flashbacks cover things that would have been planned for if an extensive planning session had been held, and is a device to help maintain a level of professionalism and competence in the characters while still driving toward Blades' desired roll and get stuck in model for scores.

 

[Fenris-77]

I wonder if anyone here has experience with versions of this as part of a more traditional RPG?

I like the idea, in theory, of allowing flashbacks even in dungeon crawls (which can have heist-like qualities).

There is a 5E hack for some Blades rules, flashbacks included, that was done to support running Dragon Heist. I used it once and it worked pretty well. As for more general use, or dungeon crawl use, you would want that idea to be an integral part of the rules I think, not something just bolted on. That 5E hack could be a model there, but it kind of depends on your desired play experience. If you're aiming for skilled play and resource management it will work counter to what you want, for example.

 

[Emerikol]

Nor would a flashback make a locked door disappear.

No but a flashback might allow for a key or a set of lockpicks etc... It's about putting your thumb on the die roll to your advantage which as you said has a cost, in this case stress.

 

[Fenris-77]

No but a flashback might allow for a key or a set of lockpicks etc... It's about putting your thumb on the die roll to your advantage which as you said has a cost, in this case stress.

That kind of example was in the post you quoted yes. Not that you'd have to do that anyway, Blades doesn't use a set equipment list for much the same reason it uses flashbacks. I don't know about putting your thumb on the die either, that pretty blatantly indexes the idea of cheating, which is a odd thing to say when you're playing by the rules. Maybe that wasn't what you meant?

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Flashbacks are a little different than you describe above. First, and importantly, there is a cost in Stress to Flashback, and stress is a dear commodity in Blades, so there's a real decision point involved, not just a narrative desire. Second, they are more limited in scope than your post suggests. You cannot change a part of the existing fiction with a flashback. For example, if a character dies, as in is now currently dead, a flashback won't bring them back to life. Nor would a flashback make a locked door disappear. What flashbacks will do is allow the character and GM to collaborate on a scenario that would allow preparations for an obstacle. So if you encountered savage dogs you could flashback for drugged doggy treats, or if there's an unexpected guard you could flashback to engineer a diversion. Essentially flashbacks cover things that would have been planned for if an extensive planning session had been held, and is a device to help maintain a level of professionalism and competence in the characters while still driving toward Blades' desired roll and get stuck in model for scores.

Ah, but we don't know if they're dead, that's the point, the way the scene is framed makes it possible they aren't actually dead, the obstacle/danger of that whole scene happening is the trigger point for the flashback. Like, Rodney having to shoot Joey to prove loyalty is a problem to be solved, the flashback just established they prepared to fake his death. I guess the rules might disallow the reveal from technically happening after the firing of the gun itself, so you'd have to flashback right before the trigger pull, I'd need to see the rules text of the actual feature to see how exactly its bounded.

I was talking about the technique's role in storytelling and how that relates to the the kind of stories BITD is designed to tell, anyway, not the letter of the mechanics in the game.

 

[prabe]

That kind of example was in the post you quoted yes. Not that you'd have to do that anyway, Blades doesn't use a set equipment list for much the same reason it uses flashbacks. I don't know about putting your thumb on the die either, that pretty blatantly indexes the idea of cheating, which is a odd thing to say when you're playing by the rules. Maybe that wasn't what you meant?

@Emerikol can speak for himself, but I interpreted it as shifting the odds in your favor, in ways specifically allowed by the rules.

 

[Fenris-77]

Ah, but we don't know if they're dead, that's the point, the way the scene is framed makes it possible they aren't actually dead, the obstacle/danger of that whole scene happening is the trigger point for the flashback. Like, Rodney having to shoot Joey to prove loyalty is a problem to be solved, the flashback just established they prepared to fake his death. I guess the rules might disallow the reveal from technically happening after the firing of the gun itself, so you'd have to flashback right before the trigger pull, I'd need to see the rules text of the actual feature to see how exactly its bounded.

I was talking about the technique's role in storytelling and how that relates to the the kind of stories BITD is designed to tell, anyway, not the letter of the mechanics in the game.

That's also not really what flashbacks in Blades do. They only effect established scenes in the fiction, specifically the current scene. You could flashback for some blanks for the gun in your example, but only if the shooting scene was currently playing out and the trigger hadn't been pulled yet.