What is this I am hearing about PHB2/DMG2/MM2 being required?
- Thread starter ThatsDM2U
- Start date
Li Shenron
Legend
UndeadScottsman said:
I don't think so.
Maybe with monsters books and DM's props. But at least with regard to player's material I am pretty sure that when people say "we're currently playing a core-only campaign" it pretty much means just the PHB.
Certainly not even WotC would define Magic Item Compendium, Savage Species or Complete Scoundrel "core".
Li Shenron
Legend
FourthBear said:
That would make half of 2ed AD&D books core
Probably what they are trying to do is to just define a group of books the material of which has a higher chance of being used as a starting point for other books.
That's however not what the word "core" has been used so far. And the chance is certainly going to decrease dramatically every year, particularly after PHB2.
FourthBear
First Post
If that half includes all of Al Qadim, I'll all for it!Li Shenron said:That would make half of 2ed AD&D books core
malraux
First Post
Umm, check the WotC product page for core products. When WotC say core product, they mean not setting specific. I agree that if a DM says "core only" he means just the PHB, MM, and DMG. But WotC has used a different meaning for a long while now, its just that no one noticed or cared till now.Li Shenron said:
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
No, I do not think the "2" books will be any more required than their 3.5E counterparts were...we've been playing for years, and nobody at our table has ever bought the PHB2 or the DMG2. I doubt we ever will, unless I stumble across them in the discount bin of the local used bookstore.
I think these "2" books for 4E will only be required for people who want a total conversion (using official WotC products) for their current 3.5E game setting...particularly the ones with druids, monks, bards, frost giants, and barbarians in them. Mine, for example.
I think these "2" books for 4E will only be required for people who want a total conversion (using official WotC products) for their current 3.5E game setting...particularly the ones with druids, monks, bards, frost giants, and barbarians in them. Mine, for example.
Flynn
First Post
I suspect that I will not regard any book as core (save the original three books in June) unless the material within it is opened to the OGL/GSL/whatever-L for third party publishers. That has become my definition in regards to what I'm going to pick up for 4E. If it isn't open for third-party use in some form or another, it's just not worth it to me to pick up. This goes for the annual WOTC-labelled "core" books as well as anything else they put out for 4E.
Of course, if a player buys a book for me as a gift, I won't turn it down. Alternately, if it's gotten good reviews and I find it at Half-Priced Books, I might pick it up then. However, my days of buying everything D&D under the sun is pretty much over for the foreseeable future, and so the third party publisher distinction seems an appropriate determinant for my purchasing dollar.
My Two Coppers, Anyway,
Flynn
Of course, if a player buys a book for me as a gift, I won't turn it down. Alternately, if it's gotten good reviews and I find it at Half-Priced Books, I might pick it up then. However, my days of buying everything D&D under the sun is pretty much over for the foreseeable future, and so the third party publisher distinction seems an appropriate determinant for my purchasing dollar.
My Two Coppers, Anyway,
Flynn
DandD
First Post
I'm rather wondering... Could you play D&D 4.0 without the PHB/MM/DMG 1s? Will there be rules for combat, skills, magical items leveling up progression and monster types and other stuff be mentioned again in the PHB 2/DMG 2/MM 2? Or will they really only be supplemental, like, just big glorified 'Complete Whatever'-books?
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
I suspect a lot of the motive for the change is that it will be harder to cherry pick books that are of interest if you diversify the content.
Lady Dragon
First Post
The first three books are all that will be requiredto play the game.
However, every time the good people who create this game have changed editions they have had to decide how to deal with the issue of future books and references to them.
The game is a constantly changing and evolving game and therefore the rules change constantly. So therefore what should they do about otherwise good new rules that are not in the three core rule books? Basically they have four choices.
1. Never reference anything in any new book except what is in the 3 main books so that people that may have missed some of the interceding books won't get lost.
2. Only reference the other "non-core" books in special sections of future books, such as at the end of chapters and keep it small and confined so as not to use up the space in the book for those uninterested in the topic.
3. Go ahead and references material from other "non-core" books but be sure to reprint all pertinent information on the topic so the reader will understand in case he/she doesn't have the original book it appeared in.
4. Reference any material from any book freely, regaurdless of weather it appeared in the original 3 books for that addition. People that didn't purchase the interceding books will just have to skip over these sections or go find a copy to get filled in.
From a readers point of veiw which choice is best really depends on how many of the extra books you tend to own. If your collection tends to be small then option 1 is probably what you want, a person with a who buys about half of the available books might want option 2 or 3 while a person who buys most or all of the books might like the forth option.
So what is the company to do? Well there history suggest different choices for different editions.
In first editions they made all of the new books supercede to old ones, fortunately there were not very many 1st edition rule books published with unearthed arcana being the only important one.
Second edition seemed to take option 4. A prime example being kits, although they were never mentioned in the core rule books and were first introduced in the complete fighters handbook they appeared regularly in second edition products.
Third edition took two different approaches. 3.0 took option 1 and never mentioned anything outside of the core books but 3.5 took all three of the other options.
As for 4th edition I think they are going to have to go with the forth option especially since they are not going to include classic classes and races such as bards, etc. So I can't really see them choosing to never mention bards again or choosing to reprint the class every time that they do.
as for how they are handling 4th edition by not putting all the regular classes in it I don't see how they really have a choice, since third edition added so much much to game. And the only way to begin to include the best of it into 4th edition is to publish many books.
WoTC cannot as a company trying to make a profit worry about those people who only buy the minimum number of books that they have to to play the game. It is the people who buy many books that they need to cater to. These are the people who support their hobby.
However, every time the good people who create this game have changed editions they have had to decide how to deal with the issue of future books and references to them.
The game is a constantly changing and evolving game and therefore the rules change constantly. So therefore what should they do about otherwise good new rules that are not in the three core rule books? Basically they have four choices.
1. Never reference anything in any new book except what is in the 3 main books so that people that may have missed some of the interceding books won't get lost.
2. Only reference the other "non-core" books in special sections of future books, such as at the end of chapters and keep it small and confined so as not to use up the space in the book for those uninterested in the topic.
3. Go ahead and references material from other "non-core" books but be sure to reprint all pertinent information on the topic so the reader will understand in case he/she doesn't have the original book it appeared in.
4. Reference any material from any book freely, regaurdless of weather it appeared in the original 3 books for that addition. People that didn't purchase the interceding books will just have to skip over these sections or go find a copy to get filled in.
From a readers point of veiw which choice is best really depends on how many of the extra books you tend to own. If your collection tends to be small then option 1 is probably what you want, a person with a who buys about half of the available books might want option 2 or 3 while a person who buys most or all of the books might like the forth option.
So what is the company to do? Well there history suggest different choices for different editions.
In first editions they made all of the new books supercede to old ones, fortunately there were not very many 1st edition rule books published with unearthed arcana being the only important one.
Second edition seemed to take option 4. A prime example being kits, although they were never mentioned in the core rule books and were first introduced in the complete fighters handbook they appeared regularly in second edition products.
Third edition took two different approaches. 3.0 took option 1 and never mentioned anything outside of the core books but 3.5 took all three of the other options.
As for 4th edition I think they are going to have to go with the forth option especially since they are not going to include classic classes and races such as bards, etc. So I can't really see them choosing to never mention bards again or choosing to reprint the class every time that they do.
as for how they are handling 4th edition by not putting all the regular classes in it I don't see how they really have a choice, since third edition added so much much to game. And the only way to begin to include the best of it into 4th edition is to publish many books.
WoTC cannot as a company trying to make a profit worry about those people who only buy the minimum number of books that they have to to play the game. It is the people who buy many books that they need to cater to. These are the people who support their hobby.
