What makes a D&D/d20 Campaign Setting great?

I'm going to go against conventional wisdom here and say that we have not reached the saturation point on D&D/D20 settings*. In fact, I'd suggest there's no such thing--if settings are done "correctly."

*(I'm referring here to settings that are intended for use with Dungeons and Dragons as written. I've no intention of discussing entirely OGL settings like Conan here; that's a whole different kettle of wax. ;))

Everything easy has been done, as have a number of things that aren't easy. I believe a setting can still be successful, but it's got a lot of hard work ahead of it.

A new setting must be sufficiently different and/or interesting to attract attention. Another "generic fantasy world" in the vein of Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms/Krynn/Mystara is simply not going to cut it. A setting has to have a hook, and "Like X but better" doesn't cut the mustard anymore.

Now, here's the hard part. It's easy to be different. Being different isn't enough. Despite being a different, a new setting, to be truly successful, must cleave to the core rules as closely as possible. New settings can add options and rules all they want, but as soon as you start removing fundamental aspects of the game, you've sliced huge chunks off your potential user base.** If you want to remove or change core aspects, you've got to do so in a way that can be ignored; make them optional, or at least provide optional rules for counteracting those changes.

**(Some very successful settings have violated this rule. I maintain that this is, at least in part, because they came out when they did, and that any attempt to do so today would fail. I'd also point out that even successful settings that do this still lost at least some potential customers. I love the look and feel of Midnight, but my group would never play it. When we pick up a D&D setting, we want to play D&D. Midnight eliminates or changes too many of the core classes and rules to appeal to some people who want a different setting but not a different rule set.)

A new setting has to be widely usable. A "drag and drop" setting like Freeport is one way to do it: Something that can be placed in an ongoing campaign. This isn't the only way, though. If a setting provides sufficient flavor and usable material, it can appeal to people who don't plan to use it whole cloth.

A new setting has to be self-contained. While supplements are fine and dandy, it should be fully playable with a single core book--maybe two, if you really stretch it. More than that, you run into the problem Psion astutely mentioned regarding Scarred Lands: There's a large barrier to entry.

Now, notice what I didn't say: I don't believe a new setting automatically has to cover brand new ground. It certainly helps if it does. And if it covers territory that's already been covered in another setting, it has to offer a hook beyond "Like X, but better," as I said above. But that doesn't make it impossible. An Arabic setting's been done. A psionic-centric setting's been done. Multiple horror/dark fantasy settings have been done. That doesn't mean those particular wells are dry. It just means a new setting that covers the same ground has to offer something different--an approach, a perspective, mechanics, whatever--to draw attention.

A new setting that successfully accomplished all of the above is exceedingly difficult, but not, I think, impossible. And so long as a new setting can manage the above, I think there's always room for one more.
 

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The above, by the way, is why a true low-magic setting--much as many of us would love to see it, if only as an option--will never be commercially viable on a large scale, at least not as a D&D/core D20 product. It simply relies too much on the elimination of core aspects that, for a great many gamers, make D&D what it is. I'm not saying such a setting is utterly impossible, but it would have to come from a smaller company that can get by on a (relatively) small quantity of sales--or from a larger company willing to swallow a potential loss for an idea they personally love.
 



Just_Hal said:
Hi KF1972 and Psion,

Bluffside did not fail as much as a few issues rolled into one put MEG on pretty much permanent hiatus.

...

Hi Hal, thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew "someone" was "sick", but I didn't know what it was all about. And it is really too bad about MEG, as it was becoming one of my favorite game companies.

Bluffside is awesome and so is Player's Advantage: Rogue. :cool:

Cheers!

KF72
 

Mouseferatu said:
The above, by the way, is why a true low-magic setting--much as many of us would love to see it, if only as an option--will never be commercially viable on a large scale, at least not as a D&D/core D20 product. It simply relies too much on the elimination of core aspects that, for a great many gamers, make D&D what it is. I'm not saying such a setting is utterly impossible, but it would have to come from a smaller company that can get by on a (relatively) small quantity of sales--or from a larger company willing to swallow a potential loss for an idea they personally love.

Okay, so sticking to the core SRD is a must, for a successful product? That sounds about right, if the company doing it has limited resources, IMO. (The Conan RPG and Arcana Unearthed/Evolved would be "good" exceptions to this rule.)

Okay, next question...

What about "name recognition"? Would you be more willing to try a d20 campaign setting, if say Piratecat wrote it? Or would you only be interested in said "P'Cat campaign" if it was based on his Defenders of Daybreak story hour?

IMO, the same reasoning goes for designers like Monte Cook, Chris Pramas, Sean K Reynolds, Matt Forbeck, Darrin Drader, Joseph Goodman, Clark Peterson, and Ari, too. I mean, take a look at how many people are clamoring for Ptolus. :cool:

Cheers!

KF72
 

Knightfall1972 said:
Okay, so sticking to the core SRD is a must, for a successful product? That sounds about right, if the company doing it has limited resources, IMO. (The Conan RPG and Arcana Unearthed/Evolved would be "good" exceptions to this rule.)

Well, keep in mind that I'm deliberately not speaking about OGL games like Conan or AE. To my mind, those go beyond simple "settings," and aren't necessarily looking at the same core audience or market. The success of an OGL game is driven largely--though certainly not entirely--by name recognition, of either the creator or the license, in ways that D20 settings are not.

Now, name recognition is always a factor, I'd say. I think "Setting X," regardless of content, would sell better with "Popular Name Y" attached than it would with "Unknown Name Z," even if the contents were otherwise identical. But I don't think, in most cases (though I'm sure there are exceptions) that this alone is enough to drive the success of a D20 setting. Even if it makes the difference between a successful launch or not--and I'm not convinced it could even do that--I seriously doubt it would be enough to maintain a product line.
 

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With all the talk about settings, I thought it might be good to revisit this thread.

One of the things that I think a setting needs is story. I don't think being a place to place your dungeons cuts it any more.

Settings need to be living, breathing places. Even if there is no novel line, there should at least be some background story going on.

I think some good examples that come to mind are Dragonlance (of course!), the Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Legend of the Five Rings, and Star Wars.

Loving all the talk about settings lately, btw. :)
 

An Arabic setting's been done.
For 3.0/3.5? Where? All I can recall is Avalanche Press's Endless Sands, which I haven't gotten the impression from reviews is all that great.

I do definitely think there's room for more good D&D/d20 settings. But that's personal opinion as I can't find one I like (and from the way people complain about what they're already tired off there should be hundreds.)
 

Interesting thread to resurrect.

Even more interesting to read Ari's post above and conclude he was mostly wrong in saying there was no room for anymore generic settings like Greyhawk or the Realms. I think the success of Golarion shows this.

I think to survive, a setting needs...

1) Adventures. All the successful settings seem to have modules set therein. I think where many publishers go wrong is in producing the world books first and the modules second (if at all). Modules and adventures should optimally lead the way in a setting. We all like to read campaign books but to use a setting we need to play in it.

2) Continued, consistent support at a steady pace. Publishers that put out only one or two books are not going to find as many fans as those that put out more. Contrarily, putting out too many, too fast, leads gamers (many of us with a completionist streak) realizing we can't afford it and giving up on the setting.

3) Good writing. I like X-Crawl, but the writing tends to be a bit hit or miss. It almost but not quite grabs me. Its the sort of world I put on the back burner and mull over. Paizo's fluff on the other hand is consistently top notch and makes me want to play right away, using their ideas.
 

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