D&D 5E (2014) What Makes an Orc an Orc?

[TheCosmicKid]

I think we strongly need both, tbh.

Eh. Some campaign settings are more cosmopolitan than others. Sometimes the elves live in the hidden city of Gondolin, sometimes the elves live in the apartments above the bakery next door.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If we make every culture composed of multiple races, we are radically altering the dynamics of virtually every D&D setting (although I sure someone can come up with counter-examples). Not only does that seem weirdly homogeneous, I don't think WotC could sell it to the broad audience they want.

Why would it be homogeneous?

Lets posit two different societies that could exist in a fantasy world.

• A classic forest kingdom with a history of Good Queens who are blessed by the fey Lady of Silver Mist and who is supported by her Knight Herald (also nearly always a woman) who is given a magic sword that makes her near invisible in combat. The common folk are treated "fairly", but are still very much the common folk. Leaving a saucer of milk out for the brownies here has a tangible benefit, much like the relationship of Rashemeni with the domovoi there, and nobles must take care to not become too arrogant or abuse their power, lest the fey play less than merciful "pranks" on them as a result.
• A nation-state nestled in a frozen fjord, where a council of guild elders governs by turns over a loosely organised commune. Magic is taught to every citizen of the city and it's protected environs, as is math, reading, and the philosophy of governance. Personal property is limited to household and personal goods, while the means of production is owned by all those who operate and/or benefit from them. Trade is handled by the guilds, and no one person is allowed to dominate any given position in trade, lest they gain power they can hold over others.

I would posit that, even if we assume literally the same exact demographics in terms of the races of dnd, these two societies simply could not possibly feel homogeneous. The only thing they really have in common is that both have a mostly Good government that works, but has things that a Good character could easily disagree with, and be uncomfortable enough with to leave their home without having edgelord bitterness about it.
Give them an expansionist despotic neighbor that they both have to deal with, and who is a common enemy for them, and you not only get further away from homogeneity, but you also get some convenient nazis to punch and foil the plans of.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

@doctorbadwolf

In my setting,

Orc + Elf = Grugach

Choice of +2 and +1, to either of Str and Dex.

I like that!

Eh. Some campaign settings are more cosmopolitan than others. Sometimes the elves live in the hidden city of Gondolin, sometimes the elves live in the apartments above the bakery next door.

Generally, if I say that DnD needs something, I'm not implying that every setting needs to have it or focus on it. DnD contains multitudes.

Also, there is a common thread I see in these conversations that is odd, to me.

For a lot of people, it seems that having diverse cultures in dnd just automatically leads to an assumption of a more modern style game, with apartments above bakeries.

What is that?

 

[Helldritch]

Orcs are orcs. Read the MM and apply it blindly unless a specific setting says otherwise. The same goes for all races.

If you want races to all be fancy humans with a different look, then remove all races and play only humans. Instead of race, use cultural biases such as bonus to skills and you'll get a Hyperborean type campaign. This way, you remove racism from the game and people looking for racism will be put at ease. It will no longer be the D&D you are used to and for me it will be a bland tasteless game but it is quite feasible without too much work.

Edit: And yes, once in while you can see a member of a race outside the norm. The exception is not the rule.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I like that!

Generally, if I say that DnD needs something, I'm not implying that every setting needs to have it or focus on it. DnD contains multitudes.

Also, there is a common thread I see in these conversations that is odd, to me.

For a lot of people, it seems that having diverse cultures in dnd just automatically leads to an assumption of a more modern style game, with apartments above bakeries.

What is that?

Well, I could note that there's nothing particularly modern about apartments above bakeries, but in general I think cosmopolitanism has a pretty natural association with the more modern eras of real-world history that feature intercontinental travel and rapidly growing cities. It's not necessary, of course, but it's not weird that that's where thoughts tend to go.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well, I could note that there's nothing particularly modern about apartments above bakeries, but in general I think cosmopolitanism has a pretty natural association with the more modern eras of real-world history that feature intercontinental travel and rapidly growing cities. It's not necessary, of course, but it's not weird that that's where thoughts tend to go.

I mean, there have been cosmopolitanism and diverse cultures for...as long as we've been writing history down?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If you want races to all be fancy humans with a different look, then remove all races and play only humans.

No.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I think you just go back to their roots, and just turn them away from being always evil. It's really not that strange of a result. Originally, orcs were the enemy because they were chaotic. Chaotic in the sense that they have a distaste for Law. In particular, the human form of civilization.

First, note that we're just defining generic orcs. Much like generic elves and generic dwarves, orcs need a generic flavor. Any campaign can change that, but the MM needs to define them, too.

Orcs in D&D are human-sized green-skinned humanoids that tend to live in nations, tribes, or clans in the wilderness. Like elves, they prefer nature, and want the world to be covered in forests and wildernesses teeming with life. They generally oppose the kind of organized civilization that humans bring. They see little value in building permanent walled cities, building cultivated fields for farmland, roads, etc. Humans invade a region and tame it to their will. Orcs are much more interested in being the alpha predators of their region, and living with what is there instead of changing it to suit them. Orcs hunt wild game, fish in rivers and lakes, tend groves of wild vegetables, and are famed for producing some of the strongest and most intoxicating liquors and wines. They often hold celebrations that feature games of athleticism or acrobatics or martial skill. Orc martial prowess is legendary in most parts of the world, with some of the greatest swordmasters known being orcs.

Most orcs will band together to face a common threat, making orcs powerful allies and deadly foes. Orcish hordes and war bands are legendary for their ferocity and tenacity, and many an army has fled the field before facing a charge from orcs. Some orcs are more hateful than their brethren, and reject the notions of peaceful existence, instead adopting the bloodthirstly ways of Gruumsh, an old, evil god of the orcs with a particular dislike for humans, elves, and dwarves. These "lost" or "dark" orcs may form war bands or hordes intent on looting cities and towns or killing other creatures they see as harming or invading the lands the orcs call home. Most orcs find such behavior distasteful, and reject the teachings of Gruumsh as self-defeating and pointlessly destructive. Unfortunately, because most orcs are disinclined to visit the cities of other races, the memory of these war bands has left a poor impression of orcs on many human nations.

As a people, orcs are known for being passionate, proud, athletic, brave, and willing to act decisively and promptly. Orcs may also be brash, arrogant, or short-sighted. They are fiercely loyal to their clan, family, or code, whether that's their own by birth or an adoptive one. They are also known for being unwilling to let go of a grudge, an unfortunate failing they share with both elves and dwarves. In some areas orc feuds with elves or dwarves have lasted centuries, long past when even their longer-lived neighbors can remember the cause. Play an orc if you want to be quick to laugh, good in a fight, and a strong and loyal friend.

In following with their Orcs tend to be chaotic, much like elves. They live much shorter lives, of course, and so they are not patient or aloof in the ways elves are. Most Orcish settlements tend to appear smaller and blend in with their surroundings. Orc settlements are also often semi-permanent, as they may migrate or travel throughout the year to find better hunting. Though in war they are known for building large forest fortresses and palisades for protection when necessary, orcs like to use the natural geography to protect themselves.

 

[jgsugden]

For the Orc: I don't think you need to change much to change a lot..

From a mechanics standpoint, I would change nothing except titles. Aggressive is renamed to Focused. Menacing becomes Daunting. I might add an alternative feature to Focused that allows the shamanistic side of orcs to shine - perhaps access to a Druid spell and a druid cantrip.

From a fluff standpoint, I'd do addition, not subtraction, to create our descriptions. Gruumsh created them with the expectation that they'd be his agents of chaos and destruction, but they broke free of his control (most of them, at least), and now they are free to be what they want to be. Gruumsh created them to be fierce warriors, but many find ways to turn the gifts he gave them to new purposes.

However, honestly, I would be fine with a point buy system for the biological elements of a PC. In my worlds, I have so many subtypes of each of the types of humanoids that you can do anything you want with them. It long ago would have been more efficient to just do a point buy system.

 

[Guest 6801328]

How are orcs "incredibly strong" without getting a bonus to Strength?

Simple:

If we're talking about PCs, put your highest score in Strength. Spend your ASIs on Strength.

If we're talking about NPCs, give them a default stat array with high Strength.