D&D 5E What Makes an Orc an Orc?

[Crimson Longinus]

I think you just go back to their roots, and just turn them away from being always evil. It's really not that strange of a result. Originally, orcs were the enemy because they were chaotic. Chaotic in the sense that they have a distaste for Law. In particular, the human form of civilization.

First, note that we're just defining generic orcs. Much like generic elves and generic dwarves, orcs need a generic flavor. Any campaign can change that, but the MM needs to define them, too.

Orcs in D&D are human-sized green-skinned humanoids that tend to live in nations, tribes, or clans in the wilderness. Like elves, they prefer nature, and want the world to be covered in forests and wildernesses teeming with life. They generally oppose the kind of organized civilization that humans bring. They see little value in building permanent walled cities, building cultivated fields for farmland, roads, etc. Humans invade a region and tame it to their will. Orcs are much more interested in being the alpha predators of their region, and living with what is there instead of changing it to suit them. Orcs hunt wild game, fish in rivers and lakes, tend groves of wild vegetables, and are famed for producing some of the strongest and most intoxicating liquors and wines. They often hold celebrations that feature games of athleticism or acrobatics or martial skill. Orc martial prowess is legendary in most parts of the world, with some of the greatest swordmasters known being orcs.

Most orcs will band together to face a common threat, making orcs powerful allies and deadly foes. Orcish hordes and war bands are legendary for their ferocity and tenacity, and many an army has fled the field before facing a charge from orcs. Some orcs are more hateful than their brethren, and reject the notions of peaceful existence, instead adopting the bloodthirstly ways of Gruumsh, an old, evil god of the orcs with a particular dislike for humans, elves, and dwarves. These "lost" or "dark" orcs may form war bands or hordes intent on looting cities and towns or killing other creatures they see as harming or invading the lands the orcs call home. Most orcs find such behavior distasteful, and reject the teachings of Gruumsh as self-defeating and pointlessly destructive. Unfortunately, because most orcs are disinclined to visit the cities of other races, the memory of these war bands has left a poor impression of orcs on many human nations.

As a people, orcs are known for being passionate, proud, athletic, brave, and willing to act decisively and promptly. Orcs may also be brash, arrogant, or short-sighted. They are fiercely loyal to their clan, family, or code, whether that's their own by birth or an adoptive one. They are also known for being unwilling to let go of a grudge, an unfortunate failing they share with both elves and dwarves. In some areas orc feuds with elves or dwarves have lasted centuries, long past when even their longer-lived neighbors can remember the cause. Play an orc if you want to be quick to laugh, good in a fight, and a strong and loyal friend.

In following with their Orcs tend to be chaotic, much like elves. They live much shorter lives, of course, and so they are not patient or aloof in the ways elves are. Most Orcish settlements tend to appear smaller and blend in with their surroundings. Orc settlements are also often semi-permanent, as they may migrate or travel throughout the year to find better hunting. Though in war they are known for building large forest fortresses and palisades for protection when necessary, orcs like to use the natural geography to protect themselves.

That's pretty damn decent description!

 

[Mercurius]

There are so many ways to approach this, and I think the bottom line is that an orc is whatever the author/designer/DM wants it to be.

As far as this discussion about "funny-looking humans," we should remember that the whole idea of non-human races was mostly drawn from Tolkien, so that forms the basic template for D&D races.

Tolkien's non-human races can be viewed as archetypes which represent different aspects of human nature.. Elves are are essentially more perfect "angelic" versions of humanity, but also more limited and subject to a kind of melancholic romanticism of looking back to a golden age; they were trying to preserve a long-gone past (e.g. the light of the Two Trees, and thus the War for the Silmarils), and thus retreated from the mortal world as it continued to change, returning to the land of the gods, where they will remain until the world's end. In other words, as much as Tolkien obviously loved the elves, he also clearly realized that their way of being was doomed and not sustainable.

Dwarves were the creations of the crafter god, and focused on materiality, crafting, and their traditions. Perhaps their flaw was a kind of insularity and, like elves, an inability to adapt (although it would be interesting to imagine how Tolkien would depict their evolution in the Fourth Age...I imagine they would have removed themselves further and further from humans, perhaps delving deeper and deeper, except for perhaps a few who integrated and even interbred).

Hobbits were the embodiment of home and all that it entails: a life of comfort and family, but also a rather limited view of the world.

Orcs were the perversion or shadow of elves, thralls to the "hyper-egoic" Morgoth, who sought to remake the world in his vision, whereas elves gloried in Iluvatar's creation and artistically augmented it through their culture.

Tolkien was deeply critical of the power-seeking nature of humanity, and the destruction wrought on the natural world by industry. If we must assign messaging to LotR, it is that power, by its very nature, is corrupt, because power is unseparable from dominion over others and the world. Orcs, in that sense, are the pawns of power and the drones of industrialism.

All that said, different strokes for different folks, or different orcs for different worlds. What makes an orc and orc, is entirely up to you - the DM, author, setting designer, and to some extent, player. I see nothing wrong with taking different paths.

For me, the tradition of D&D is a vast archive of ideas that continues to be added to, and that's very nature is one of customization and individualization. The canonical take--as presented in the latest edition (whatever that is)--is just a template to adapt to your liking.

One of the things that I've liked about 5E is a renewed emphasis on "make the game your own." I think the best way forward is to further this idea, which means expanding the ideas of "what makes an orc and orc" (for example). Of course the trick is how to do this, while maintaining some degree of distinct D&D flavor and orcishness. Probably the best way to do this is to offer setting-specific orcs, to highlight the differences between different worlds, and to say to customers, "Here are some options from worlds we've created, pick one or make your own."

 

[Helldritch]

No.

Of course you should. This would be perfect. No more racism in your game. Only culture. This would not be the D&D that I want but from all the other threads and literally thousands of posts, it seems that this is what and where it will lead to. All races will just be fancy humans affected and raised according to their culture.

I have almost been accused of racism because I want my orcs to be evil (depending on the setting, that is). I sincerely do not see a relation between evil orcs and black people but this fact has been hammered down on me time and time again. So I gave in. All races in published product should only be fancy humans. Since they're only fancy humans, it is only a small step to only play humans. It will no longer be the D&D that I love but it will no longer be morally ambiguous.

 

[Oofta]

I genuinely don't know how or where to start with explaining the difference in niche between a distinct people, and the mixed offspring of those people with someone from another quite different people.

How about you just post your opinions and I'll post mine?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Of course you should. This would be perfect. No more racism in your game. Only culture. This would not be the D&D that I want but from all the other threads and literally thousands of posts, it seems that this is what and where it will lead to. All races will just be fancy humans affected and raised according to their culture.

I have almost been accused of racism because I want my orcs to be evil (depending on the setting, that is). I sincerely do not see a relation between evil orcs and black people but this fact has been hammered down on me time and time again. So I gave in. All races in published product should only be fancy humans. Since they're only fancy humans, it is only a small step to only play humans. It will no longer be the D&D that I love but it will no longer be morally ambiguous.

This is absurd melodrama.

Firstly, the "relation" that you "do not see" is between descriptions of orcs and other dnd races, and literally the same language with only the nouns changed in the writings of racists describing Black, Indigenous, and other People of Color.

But that doesn't even have much to do with this patently absurd notion that by recognizing and changing that language, we have to have dnd peoples that are basically the same as humans.

So, again, no.

How about you just post your opinions and I'll post mine?

Opinions given in public are open to challenge.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think you just go back to their roots, and just turn them away from being always evil. It's really not that strange of a result. Originally, orcs were the enemy because they were chaotic. Chaotic in the sense that they have a distaste for Law. In particular, the human form of civilization.

First, note that we're just defining generic orcs. Much like generic elves and generic dwarves, orcs need a generic flavor. Any campaign can change that, but the MM needs to define them, too.

Orcs in D&D are human-sized green-skinned humanoids that tend to live in nations, tribes, or clans in the wilderness. Like elves, they prefer nature, and want the world to be covered in forests and wildernesses teeming with life. They generally oppose the kind of organized civilization that humans bring. They see little value in building permanent walled cities, building cultivated fields for farmland, roads, etc. Humans invade a region and tame it to their will. Orcs are much more interested in being the alpha predators of their region, and living with what is there instead of changing it to suit them. Orcs hunt wild game, fish in rivers and lakes, tend groves of wild vegetables, and are famed for producing some of the strongest and most intoxicating liquors and wines. They often hold celebrations that feature games of athleticism or acrobatics or martial skill. Orc martial prowess is legendary in most parts of the world, with some of the greatest swordmasters known being orcs.

Most orcs will band together to face a common threat, making orcs powerful allies and deadly foes. Orcish hordes and war bands are legendary for their ferocity and tenacity, and many an army has fled the field before facing a charge from orcs. Some orcs are more hateful than their brethren, and reject the notions of peaceful existence, instead adopting the bloodthirstly ways of Gruumsh, an old, evil god of the orcs with a particular dislike for humans, elves, and dwarves. These "lost" or "dark" orcs may form war bands or hordes intent on looting cities and towns or killing other creatures they see as harming or invading the lands the orcs call home. Most orcs find such behavior distasteful, and reject the teachings of Gruumsh as self-defeating and pointlessly destructive. Unfortunately, because most orcs are disinclined to visit the cities of other races, the memory of these war bands has left a poor impression of orcs on many human nations.

As a people, orcs are known for being passionate, proud, athletic, brave, and willing to act decisively and promptly. Orcs may also be brash, arrogant, or short-sighted. They are fiercely loyal to their clan, family, or code, whether that's their own by birth or an adoptive one. They are also known for being unwilling to let go of a grudge, an unfortunate failing they share with both elves and dwarves. In some areas orc feuds with elves or dwarves have lasted centuries, long past when even their longer-lived neighbors can remember the cause. Play an orc if you want to be quick to laugh, good in a fight, and a strong and loyal friend.

In following with their Orcs tend to be chaotic, much like elves. They live much shorter lives, of course, and so they are not patient or aloof in the ways elves are. Most Orcish settlements tend to appear smaller and blend in with their surroundings. Orc settlements are also often semi-permanent, as they may migrate or travel throughout the year to find better hunting. Though in war they are known for building large forest fortresses and palisades for protection when necessary, orcs like to use the natural geography to protect themselves.

Oh hey, orcs that aren't inherently evil, and also aren't especially similar to humans.

Nice!

 

[Helldritch]

Oh hey, orcs that aren't inherently evil, and also aren't especially similar to humans.

Nice!

If you remove their biases, they are just fancy humans with a mask. Remove the tropes and you remove the "need?" for that race. A human culture will be much better and more versatile for your needs. Orcs are always evil trope (in a setting that make such an assumption) adds the possibility to make an exception which can lead to great role play.

The strength of the humans in D&D is exactly their varied culture. If all races have this trait, you either do not need races or you don't need humans. The monocultural aspect of the races in D&D is the explanation of the human's success. So if every races can be anything, just use humans. Culture will be the defining point of every characters.

 

[VelvetViolet]

The strength of the humans in D&D is exactly their varied culture. If all races have this trait, you either do not need races or you don't need humans. The monocultural aspect of the races in D&D is the explanation of the human's success. So if every races can be anything, just use humans. Culture will be the defining point of every characters.

This is mentioned in the cartoon Ben 10 at one point. Humans don’t have any fancy superpowers, but they do have flexible minds. Also, Earth is the only planet with more than one or two biomes.

 

[Helldritch]

This is mentioned in the cartoon Ben 10 at one point. Humans don’t have any fancy superpowers, but they do have flexible minds. Also, Earth is the only planet with more than one or two biomes.

I don't know this cartoon. But good point about the biomes.

 

[Charlaquin]

The obvious solution is to do away with monolithic racial cultures.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiis!!! The easiest way to make any people not offensive is to make them not all be the same. Give your people’s diverse cultures!

Replace them with poly-racial cultures revolving around regional, religious, or mercantile divisions. You can use generalities like, "orcs tend to act more impulsively than others in their culture," or "orcs are often pushed to the edges of society in culture XYZ."

I probably wouldn’t do the “orcs tend to act more impulsively than others in their culture” idea. Impulsivity should probably be a product of culture, rather than biology.