I suspect he wasn't particularly concerned with cover as just being not visible as a target at all. Even though a flying creature 600 feet away can get an angle to see into a trench or over a wall, it is probably a fairly steep angle at that kind of distance and will take a good bit of movement, and probably time. It doesn't do anything for any significant amount of plant cover or fog though, which is why concealment has been a time honored strategy for archers. As well as giving Fog Cloud a reason to exist.
What makes Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter so good?
Sharpshooter doesn't get around full cover and magically allow your PCs to see through objects. Gaining full cover is not difficult unless you are a huge creature. And it's not metagaming to have my monsters do things that are basic common sense and survival instinct. I wouldn't expect the PCs to stand in the open taking arrows in the face from 600ft, why would I expect the monsters to?
If the monsters are hiding behind something like the trunk of a large tree, a large bush, or even tall grass large enough to cover them, they are fully covered. If the PC is flying and the monsters are hiding under the canopy of trees, in a building, under a cart, anything where the PCs cannot see them, they are fully covered. If your monsters jump in a trench that is deep enough to break line of sight to the PC, they are fully covered. Same with stepping around the corner or into a building, ducking behind a large cart or rock or anything that is big enough to break line of sight. having things in the environment that are large enough for a monster to hide behind is pretty simple really.
devincutler
Explorer
You seem to be under the impression that once a foe breaks line of sight and has total cover that the enemy just stands there and scratches his head. If you jump into a trench and have total cover, I fly towards you or fly higher up until I can see you (remember, I only need to see a TINY speck of you to negate total cover and attack you at full value) If you hide behind a tree, I fly over you and shoot down. Trunks are vertical for the most part.
Most of your total cover ideas can be negated by simply flying above the target.
If you are 600ft away and fly up, and the monster jumps in a trench, it's going to take you a few rounds more than likely to get to an angle to hit them assuming they stay in the same place. If the monster is the size of an elf and dives under a wagon or cart the size of a Volkswagen, you are going to have to be back on the ground to try to hit. If the elf runs into a building, no amount of flying will help you. If the elf runs around the corner of a wall, and you are 200 or 600 ft away, it's going to take you a few rounds to get an angle. Full cover is not the mystical unicorn you seem to make it out to be. Sure, your PC can spend a half and hour flying back and forth trying to get an angle to attack. and while you do this, does the rest of your party just stand around 600ft away watching you fly around? Oh and while they waste that half hour, the reinforcements are likely going to be called in...now it's a party.
Again, I am not disagreeing that sharpshooter is a bit too powerful, but you are making it much more powerful than it really is. Stick with your homebrew rule, as I said I think it's a great idea to solve the problem at your table, it's just an issue at my table.
CapnZapp
Legend
Again, this is not the complaint.
The complaint is, that if a martial character wants to do damage (and who does not?) he or she pretty much MUST get one of these feats if feats are allowed, or see himself comprehensively outclassed by those allies who do.
devincutler
Explorer
Well, since my players play fighters without the feat, and my son plays a barbarian without the feat, and not a single martial type in the last 4 day Convention AL fest I attended had the feat, I'd say a LOT of martial characters "don't want to do damage", which is actually foolish for you to say because technically a fighter without the feat still does SOME damage. But I know what you meant to say was "if a martial character wants to maximize damage".
And the answer to that is that there are other things a material character can do aside from maximizing damage. Like maxing AC.
D
dco
Guest
You answered yourself, doubling average damage, for me that's bad design in a game where hitting is not difficult and the real armor are the hit points. But that's not all, the feats have more features, sometimes you can get an extra attack with GWM, that can mean 2-4x more damage, you have no penalty for long range and ignore some covers for sharpshooter.
Ok, accuracy is lower, but with 2 attacks if you need a roll of 11 to hit if you use GWM or Sharpshooter (a roll of 16) you will do practically the same average damage if we consider the feat is doubling this damage. That should cover an armor class of 16+Proficiency, most enemies, but the chances of criticals are the same and GWM could add another attack and Sharpshooter can reduce some penalties.
Once you add bonuses to hit from magic weapons, bless, bardic inspiration... self buffs from the classes like barbarian's reckless attack, rerolls with extra dice from Battlemasters, paladins with advantage or CHA bonuses...debuffs like hold person...and monsters with low armor class the probability of doing more damage raises fast.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
The -5/+10 part is overrated because bad math. It just makes you look awesome. Make a list. Note how much damage you actually lose if you don't trust calculations that are not based on wrong assumptions. For a large part of the game, it is only worth using if enemy AC is lower than 17 or 18 and in that case the increase is only marginal and is more or less a gamble. Increasing the odds usually results in lower damage elsewhere. Casting bless means not casting guiding bolt or inflict wounds. Direct damage that can't be resisted completely and might end the fight even faster. At higher level you can use a better spell of course that might compete with concentration. Of course if stakes are low and you want to save spells, bless is always a good option.
CapnZapp
Legend
Lol.
Yeah, "usually results in lower damage elsewhere".
Said by someone that apparently is totally new to the concept of optimization or minmaxing.
You're right about bad math being involved in rating the feat. Not just what you think.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Times of optimization lie behind me. Possible. But unfun. Buildup often means suffering for many levels until combos come online. And when you are finally there, combats are often not as you expect them. If your games are that repetitive more power(gaming) to you.
I have yet to see a build from you that deals enoigh self sustained damage from level 1 onward that shows how op GWM is.
I have yet to see the build that does 50 more points of damage than the non optimized one without unreasonable assumptions.
