What PrCs need houseruling and why?

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Download the S&F errata; Halfling Outriders get the usual fighter-type +1/level BAB. It was just accidentally left out of the book when they first printed it. Not sure where Survivor is from, though.

Did they finally change this?

Last I was aware, the errata carried no such change, and the Outrider's lack of BAB was a "design decision," not a typo.

Survivor is from Savage Species. It's an interesting class-- built around being more difficult to kill. It offers very little skillwise, no spellcasting, and a small HD, but gives several special abilities that boost survivability. It also has no BAB, but it has an actual BAB chart that shows no progression.

I'd give them the Wizard's, just because no class should have no progression.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Did they finally change this?

Last I was aware, the errata carried no such change, and the Outrider's lack of BAB was a "design decision," not a typo.

Dunno, I have an errata dated a year ago that has the change in it. If they undid the change that's one thing, but I've never heard it as a design decision.

 

[drnuncheon]

Dunno, I have an errata dated a year ago that has the change in it. If they undid the change that's one thing, but I've never heard it as a design decision.

I believe they claimed it was a "design decision" briefly, although there was much speculation that they just didn't want to say "oops".

If it was a design decision, it's pretty goofy. (So are a lot of things in S&F). +1/2 is the default for "no appreciable combat training" - that's why commoners and wizards get it.

J

 

[seasong]

My philosophy for PrCs is this: they should be better than the core class at the specialized thing the PrC does; they should be worse than the core class at anything else. It's helpful if you can make sure that they are as much worse as they are better, and it's VERY nice if you can tie the severity of the prerequisites to the power of the specialization, but the above serves as a good minimum.

1. If the PrC can do everything the core class can, as well or better, and has some abilities stuck on top of that, there's a problem.
2. If the core class can do what the PrC is best at, as well or better, there's a problem.

With that said, I think that most of the PrCs I've seen fall under #1 or #2. I was looking at the Incantatrix for my upcoming Game of Death, and it has NO penalties that an abjuror wizard (none!), and gains +1 metamagic feat and a whole suite of special abilities.

Another issue, of course, is just badly worded rules, or a poor understanding of the rules the class is meant to modify. The Arcane Leech is a very nice idea, reasonably well-balanced, and looks like it was deliberately written to force the GM to make judgement calls about obscurely worded rules.

 

[Drawmack]

DISCLAIMER: This post is not really in the spirit of this thread but it is related and it is my views on this topic.

The prestige class mechanic needs to be reworked.

There is one major thing that needs to be added to the prestige class mechanic. You must be affiliated with an organization that offers the prestige class, then be subsequently trained by that organization to take levels in that prestige class. Granted there a a couple PrCs that could be self-taught but generally speaking they require specialized training.

Another major flaw of the system is making prestige classes their own class. For example I should not be a Rog x/Spymaster y. I should be a Rog(Spymaster) x/y. The prestige class should be subordinate to another class. Mechanically this keeps everything the same except it adds a prereq of a specific sub-set of the core classes. That sub-set could be all classes but it doesn't have to be. Also then it you could state that multiclassed characters can only take a prestige class if all their classes appear in the sub-set of classes eligable for that class.

Look closely at the PrCs people are complaining about and see how many of them would be fixed by these two tweaks to the overall system.

 

[seasong]

One other thing I forgot to mention in my rant on specialization ... Some good PrCs shift a character's role far out of the ordinary, into being able to do things that no one else can, period. These should have commensurate sacrifices in other abilities - if a wizard becomes a natural, at will planar traveller, he should give up a lot in the way of spell casting ability.

 

[Drawmack]

One other thing I forgot to mention in my rant on specialization ... Some good PrCs shift a character's role far out of the ordinary, into being able to do things that no one else can, period. These should have commensurate sacrifices in other abilities - if a wizard becomes a natural, at will planar traveller, he should give up a lot in the way of spell casting ability.

Not IMC, no matter the means planar travel does not allow for the transfer of inanimate objects. This usually surprises players the first time they plane shift.

 

[Clay_More]

I must admit I chose to play Incantrix for munchkin reasons with my last wizard as well. It keeps its normal spell progress, gets bonus feats, gets kewl powers (like immunity to undead abilities), it gets a power that equal to a epic feat (Improved Metamagic) and it gets a couple of free uses of metamagic (no matter the spell level modification of the metamagic. Which means, I could cast Intensified Meteorstorm as a 9 th. level spell).

 

[green slime]

Not IMC, no matter the means planar travel does not allow for the transfer of inanimate objects. This usually surprises players the first time they plane shift.

Interesting.... How do they then get back, without money, components, or any items?

I suppose a high level character could animate half-dozen objects to carry with him...Has this ever come up?
=========

And back to the content of the thread:
I despise Prestige Classes. They were in the DMG for a reason; they shouldn't be available for players to pick and choose abilities to weener out their characters. IMO, They should be part of organisations, with focus, goals, and prerequisites. In general, they don't accept just any person into their league, they instead require a show of commitment, and will most probably approach likely candidates themselves, rather than be approached. The only possible exception is certain military units...

 

[seasong]

Clay_More: For my Game of Death, I left most of the Incatatrix' essential abilities intact (with a few clarifications), but nerfed their generalist abilities. After the nerfing, they get 1 less metamagic feat than a wizard, can only apply the instant metamagic and improved metamagic to abjuration and transmutation spells, and have to give up one extra school of magic.

The result was an Incantatrix that spins circles around a wizard for abjuration, but the wizard has a lot of options that the Incantatrix gives up.

Drawmack: I can only assume that in your campaign, the players are the first to ever plane shift? Gotta love new frontiers .