What PrCs need houseruling and why?

[Essence]

I'm very curious to know what people think here: what PrCs are horribly over and/or underpowered?

I've a short list that I have put together already:

Blood Magus: giving up 5 caster levels for the abilities this class grants is harsh enough; having to lose a level to get in makes this a total boner.

Spellsword: Anything that can be easily outdone using only base classes needs to be redone.

Hospitaller & Master of Shrouds: Any PrC that grants full spellcasting levels and full BAB is overpowered regardless of it's class abilities.

Hexer: This classes prereqs are just dumb. You have to be an NPC classed, NPC raced, totally useless-to-any-party character to get in at all. Sorry, I don't believe in NPC-only PrCs.


Arcane Duelist: this class is weak like a Pirate in every concievable fashion. High-level class abilities that duplicate low-level spells are a sick joke.


Any other PrCs that badly need reworking? Please explain exactly Why, as well.


Essence

 

[Saeviomagy]

Virtuouso - Sure it LOOKS like a bard-friendly class, but taking it after taking levels in sorceror or wizard is far, far, far, far...
...
...far more powerful. You end up being almost a full bard, plus a full sorceror, plus the virtuoso's extended musical abilities.

Any of the classes which can grant a prestige domain to an arcane caster. There was little enough reason to keep divine spells off the arcane lists already, but now it just becomes silly.

Candle caster - does anyone really think this fits their character?

Verdant lord - full BAB and full casting. Not overpowered for a druid to take (because he loses a lot of class abilities), but if a cleric gets in, he just gains and gains and loses nothing.

I think that a lot of these problems would be solved if the class specified WHICH class it advanced casting for: For instance if hospitaller ONLY advanced PALADIN spellcasting, it would be fine. If virtuoso only advanced bard casting, not a problem. If verdant lord only advanced druid casting, fine.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Dragon Disciple. It's designed as a Sorceror class, but it's only attractive for a Sor 1/Fighter X to take. (Or other fighting class) Bonus spells are nice, but not enough to make up for losing ten spellcaster levels-- unless you only have one level of spells.

Being able to cast ten or twelve True Strikes in a day really works nice for a Fighter type, though. Especially since a Half Dragon is practically guaranteed access to Power Attack.

Halfling Outrider and Survivor-- every class should have at least some BAB progression, even if it's only half-rate like a Wizard's.

Forsaker. A Human can get in at third level and the ability boosts, Fast Healing, Spell Resistance and Damage Reduction are all way too powerful for any PrC.

 

[Ds Da Man]

I think even having prerequisites for PRC's suck. I hate how all the characters have to have the book and aim their character a certain way. From now on, I will not have any of the players "select" a PRC, but will have to get offered to be trained or taken in by the PRC group. Such as an elven bladesinger. Hey, now I'm a bladesinger just doesn't cut it. I now will have the PC get quized, and offered a chance to become a bladesinger. Maybe make him complete a special quest, or task for the right to begin training as a bladesinger. Etc., Etc.,

 

[Chacal]

Every PrC that is strictly superior to any base class.
Most of the +1 Spellcasting level PrC should lose something significant IMO (and not only in the prereqs)
I know that many people disagree with this, but IMC, I don't want no-brainer choices PrC.

Chacal
Diversity is not a total order.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Halfling Outrider and Survivor-- every class should have at least some BAB progression, even if it's only half-rate like a Wizard's.

Download the S&F errata; Halfling Outriders get the usual fighter-type +1/level BAB. It was just accidentally left out of the book when they first printed it. Not sure where Survivor is from, though.

And to the original topic, I'd agree with Chacal; PrCs shouldn't be superior in every way to the core class they "replace", no matter how hefty the prerequisites are. The prime example of this are the PrCs that increase casting level at every class level.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Forsaker. A Human can get in at third level and the ability boosts, Fast Healing, Spell Resistance and Damage Reduction are all way too powerful for any PrC.

This isn't the problem with a forsaker. The problem with a forsaker is that he sucks. Completely and utterly. He never gets his DR because he can't tell what he has to smash. He loses his abilities all the time because he can't tell that the rock he just picked up was a luckstone, and now he's using it. He can't travel with the rest of the party, he can't use their abilities to negotiate problems. In short, he can't play as part of a team.

His fast healing is laughable when compared with healing magic (50 hitpoints a day at 13th level... the same level as HEAL is available)

His SR is laughable full stop. Precisely what does he do when his opponent is flying?

His stat bonuses... again, laughable. Compared with a fighter with magic items... It's just silly.

The end result: A team-breaking character who really can't actually contribute much to any fight. Any team worth their salt would (if they weren't metagaming) drop him in an instant.

 

[Nifft]

ALL PrCs need house ruling!

I don't accept PrCs that aren't tailored to my homebrew setting.

-- Nifft

 

[Crothian]

ALL PrCs need house ruling!

If you mean to add setting specific stuff, then you are right. But actually few prestige classes are as bad as people saw. You can't judge a prestige class solely by looking at it. Most of the time I've seen powerful classes, it was becasue PCs were allowed to abuse them.

 

[Spatzimaus]

ALL PrCs need house ruling!

I'll agree, but for a different reason. To me, the ideal PrC is one customized by the DM to his campaign, and by the player to his PC. If you think a certain PrC ability is overpowered, then it should be the player's responsibility to convince you it isn't before you remove it. Remember, in an argument, ties go to the DM.

A compromise is an agreement that leaves both sides unhappy. If the player is happy to take a PrC, with no second thoughts, then there's something wrong.

This also works the other direction. If a player wants his character to follow a certain concept, and there's a PrC that seems to exemplify that concept, if the player isn't taking that PrC it might need a boost in power.