Pathfinder 1E What project would you like Paizo to tacke next for Pathfinder?

[Celtavian]

Not sure where you're getting this from. I quite like how the rogue plays and works. If I want to play a monster damage dealer in combat, I play a full BAB class, not a class that's more focused on skills and tactics and roleplaying and stealth, I guess. (shrug)[/i]

In general, you need a rogue to survive dungeons. Advance scout and trap finder is pretty important. We run a pretty lethal game. But no one wants to play a straight class rogue because they are weak in end module combat.

THAT SAID... you'll want to check out the upcoming Advanced Player's Guide for sure then, because there's going to be a LOT of new options and rules for all the 11 core classes... wizards and rogues included.

I hope we have some options for making another class a trapfinder. I was tempted to house rule giving rogue type trapfinding as a feat so no one is forced to play one. They just don't stand up to the other classes in combat, and we're a combat heavy campaign.


Maybe you can answer a design question I've had for a long time.

Why does the rogue only have +15 BAB? You improved the monk by giving him a higher BAB with his flurry, but didn't improve the rogue.

When a DM is designing combat encounters, he must make an encounter difficult enough to challenge a +20 BAB class with special abilities like Smite Evil, Weapon Training, and Favored Enemy while not making it nearly impossible for a +15 BAB class with no real special abilities to boost hit chance to hit.

It's pretty difficult. It makes alot of the players I play with not want to play straight rogues because straight rogues do well enough against cannon fodder. But they end up being non-factors against end game bad guys. It's bad enough they they have weak saves against fort and will, often the most debilitating attacks with less defensive counters than reflex based attacks. But then to be rendered nearly useless in the end game encounters because of ACs meant to challenge higher BAB classes with incredible special abilities, it's like adding insult to injury.

I keep wondering why this choice keeps being made. Does the ranger already fulfill the light fighter with lots of skills slot? So the rogue has to be the trap bitch and scout? It's easy to multiclass and obtain the same effect. So what's the motivation to play a straight rogue to 20 compared to a fighter/rogue or ranger/rogue?

Paizo spent alot of time designing classes players would want to play to 20. They did a good job on all but two classes in my opinion: the rogue and wizard.

The wizard because they aren't as interesting as other classes. Their power is still potent, but the number of interesting abilities isn't there. I can live with this, though I'm hoping for some interesting prestige classes.

Now the rogue doesn't hold its own against a multiclass rogue. You can obtain the same trapfinding capabilities while multiclassing and being a much stronger, more involved combatant. Traps aren't dangerous enough to require the services of a level 20 rogue and for a player to accept the occasional "Good job disarming that trap. Now let us take care of the real bad guy" situation they're in.

Players don't like seeming uselesss missing over and over again in major end module combats. Why not boost rogue BAB, at least while sneak attacking, like you did for the monk? I understand you might have to lower sneak attack somewhat. But consistently involved in major combats is what most players want, and we're having problems with that in our game because of the BAB disparity between rogue and other physical combat classes in the more difficult module encounters.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Wow full BAB and sneak attack? No , just no. The rogue is a great class, better in fact then 3.5 He gains 8 skills per level, now has less skills he must take, D8 HD, Medium bab, sneak attack{that now works on almost everything} Evasion and they gave em rogue talents.


Sorry I just can not understand what your saying. This class needs no boosts in power. It is among the most played of all classes as far as I have seen.

Also as for traps as far as I know anyone can find traps, even magic ones now. Only a rogue can disable a magic one however. So yes only rogues can disarm them, anyone can find them

 

[MichaelSomething]

And how is the wizard bad? I assume the reason that they don't get many new toys was because they had this thing call FULL SPELL PROGRESSION! The problem is that many prestige classes gave full progression along with powers which is too much.

 

[Votan]

And how is the wizard bad? I assume the reason that they don't get many new toys was because they had this thing call FULL SPELL PROGRESSION! The problem is that many prestige classes gave full progression along with powers which is too much.

That's kind of my thinking, as well. No element of prestige classes was ever so messed up as to add abilities on top of spell progression given that it was the primary class feature of the 3.X D&D wizard types.

Pathfinder did seem to do a very good job of the prestige classes in the Core Rulebook, making it impossible to get cool features without some losses.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

That's kind of my thinking, as well. No element of prestige classes was ever so messed up as to add abilities on top of spell progression given that it was the primary class feature of the 3.X D&D wizard types.

Pathfinder did seem to do a very good job of the prestige classes in the Core Rulebook, making it impossible to get cool features without some losses.

I am agreeing with both of y'all. If your wizard 10/PRC 10 is way more powerful then the wizard 20, that PRC is most likely broken.

 

[MerrikCale]

definately, asia themed. I would love to see that book. The others I would enjoy but not as much

 

[Dimitris]

Yup; building a kingdom and ruling it is the central theme of the upcoming Kingmaker Adventure Path. I'm really eager to see how folks take to the rules for building and maintaining domains work... I hope they like them! (nervously crosses fingers)

I can't wait.
As a friend in a previous post said, I like to think that dungeons are not the only interesting thing the players could be involved.

I vote for "monsters as PCs" but I would like to see the world expanded to Casmaron, Vudra and Arcadia.
I am not really interested to epic levels.

A mass combat system could be another idea.

 

[Celtavian]

re

And how is the wizard bad? I assume the reason that they don't get many new toys was because they had this thing call FULL SPELL PROGRESSION! The problem is that many prestige classes gave full progression along with powers which is too much.

Didn't say bad. I said boring. Sorcerer offers alot more bang for the buck. I predict many will pursue wizard Prcs once more become available due to the lack of interesting progression for a wizard at 20.

 

[Celtavian]

Wow full BAB and sneak attack? No , just no. The rogue is a great class, better in fact then 3.5 He gains 8 skills per level, now has less skills he must take, D8 HD, Medium bab, sneak attack{that now works on almost everything} Evasion and they gave em rogue talents.


Sorry I just can not understand what your saying. This class needs no boosts in power. It is among the most played of all classes as far as I have seen.

I'd love to see some data supporting that straight class rogues are among the most played classes. I'd put my money that the rogue is one of classes most likely to be multiclassed due to how encounters are designed.

Medium BAB as it is called makes a class that relies solely on melee damage weak in combat.

Take your average fighter: Let's say 16 str to start.

At lvl 20 he'll have the following: +20 BAB + 5 str bonus (4 pt in str from advancement) + 4 weapon training + 2 greater weapon focus = 31 to hit

And he'll do an average of +5 str + 4 weapon training + 4 double spec = +13 damage to hit.

At lvl 20 a rogue: 16 dex 14 str

+15 BAB + +5 dex mod (4 pts dex) + weapon focus +1 atk = +21 to hit

for +2 damage and sneak attack when he gets it.

A DM designs an encounter where the fighter hits on around a 8 to 10 the rogue will need an 18 to 20 to hit that creature. This doesn't include all the feats the fighter gets for ripping through DR and the crit feats, something the rogue has less access to.


Then the rogue has poor fort and will saves. That makes him susceptible to fear, hold spells, death type spells, and the like.

And he doesn't have much ranged capacity. An archer fighter or ranger far exceeds a rogue's damage at range.

Where does that leave the rogue? Sitting on the sideline in the toughest fights watching the +20 BAB classes and the arcane casters ripping it up. Is that where most players want to be? I doubt it.

Also as for traps as far as I know anyone can find traps, even magic ones now. Only a rogue can disable a magic one however. So yes only rogues can disarm them, anyone can find them

Yes. They are the only ones that can disable them. Though I imagine we could just buy a wand of summon monster 1 to open trapped doors if no one wants to play a rogue. Getting people in my group to play a rogue is like pulling teeth.

Even today, the one guy that was going to play a rogue got bent over because the Second Darkness module has shadowy illumination everywhere. Can't sneak attack a concealed target. And no light source will overcome it.

And when something flies, he also gets reamed. And when spells like blasphemy go off, he is most likely to fail his save. He's last on the list to be freed from paralysis because he's the weakest fighter. Can't go toe to toe with the big bad guys without getting wasted, so we spend spellpower getting the +20 BAB classes out first.

All in all, our group experience with the rogue is such that no one plays a straight class rogue because they are weak in combat. And you can get alot of what you need from the rogue by multiclassing with fighter or ranger.

I just wish the rogue were another class designed well enough that my players wouldn't mind playing them to 20 or at all. When one of them has to play the rogue, you would have thought they had been given a prison sentence. They love every class except the rogue. I play mostly arcane casters, so I'm the one that thinks the wizard is a bit lacking. I prefer the sorcerer. All those cool bloodline feats and powers seem alot more fun. And versatility isn't needed too much, especially when you can't change midcombat as a wizard. Just the other day some sorcerer was blasting me with differnt types of energy and my sorcerer was putting up different types of resist energy. Hard to do that as a wizard using all those spell slots for resist energy.

And it is extremely expensive to build a quality spellbook. And extremely cheap to be a sorcerer. Sure, you lack spell versatility. But you get enough slots that 90% of the most commonly cast spells will be on your list. And you can cast them spontaneously, must better than having to memorise them.

In a spur of the moment combat, I'd take a wizard over a sorcerer player skill being equal. And with as many feats as you get now, you can load up on metamagic feats that the sorcerer can cast spontaneously including quicken. Pretty damn nifty if you ask me. Lots of different potent spell themes to build around as a sorcerer too. Want to dominate people? Go fey. Want to be more versatile? Go arcane. Want to be a shapechanger? Go Aberrant. Alot of interesting abilities given to sorcerers. Wizards have some too, just not as many.

 

[Sunderstone]

I voted on an asia-themed book (hopefully like AD&Ds Oriental Adventures).

IMHO, the APs ending at levels 13-16 or so is enough for me and my group, I doubt we would even be interested in getting to level 20 let alone the epic levels. Unless there was decent support for the book (i.e. adventures), and Paizo's version of epic levels started from level 16 or so, then I would be interested. Module support is a must for me and maybe others that dont have time to create adventures of their own.

Add to that, I dont really see many people reaching epic levels in the game regardless, even in Story Hour threads. Is there really that much of a market for this?

The asia book seems like a better sell, as far as the flavor thing goes. Asian mythology and classes like Ninja, Wu-jen, Samurai, etc would be cool to have.


I keep thinking of the dull Maztica stuff from FR though (did anyone even buy this and use it beyond the FR completionists?). While an aztec/inca/mayan temple might make a good adventure site, I find the mythology abit boring. Asian, Norse, and Egyptian based books would be excellent on the other hand, ymmv.