D&D 5E What Rules do you see people mistake or misapply?

[schnee]

This thread is Godzilla vs. Mothra for me now.

I'm not really rooting for either side any more, just watching the destruction of a thriving metrop- er, thread.

 

[Corwin]

If you walk into a room (and don't walk into the thing) I think it would be virtually impossible to detect an invisible statue unless you interact with it somehow in many (not all) cases. It would be no different than if I blindfolded you, took you into a room you had never been in and asked you to describe where all the furniture was. Unless you're DareDevil it's not going to happen.

I find these two examples to be nothing alike. You are equating being able to see everything around the invisible statue, to being blind and not seeing anything in the room at all. No wonder you flat out disallow your PC their chances. You relate scenarios to extreme, exaggerated conditions until it fits your desire to zero out any possibility.

 

[Oofta]

I find these two examples to be nothing alike. You are equating being able to see everything around the invisible statue, to being blind and not seeing anything in the room at all. No wonder you flat out disallow your PC their chances. You relate scenarios to extreme, exaggerated conditions until it fits your desire to zero out any possibility.

There's a 2 foot tall invisible lawn gnome statue on an otherwise clean shelf.

• No dust, no cobwebs, the shelf is not bending under the weight of the statue, nothing.
• You don't have a bat's sonar.
• You don't have keen enough hearing to hear the air molecules bouncing off of it.
• It doesn't have a unique smell, it's not making any noise.
• It's not sparking magic gnome dust to give away it's position.
• Its' a clean room and there's not enough dust floating in the air to give away it's position
• There's no pigeon sitting on top of it, no spider crawling over it or anything else

How could you possibly notice it unless you happen to bump into it?

But my answer included examples that ran the gamut, from being undetectable without special abilities to it being obvious there was something you couldn't see with options in between. The undetectable statue is just one possibility of many.

I don't understand why it bothers you that there's a chance the DM may show some creativity and think about how people would perceive the world around them.

The "invisible object in the room" has featured in more than one game I've played, and is a pretty common trope of fantasy/sci-fi/comics.

It's also off topic of creatures running around in combat turning invisible, and is something simply not covered by the rules. When the rules are silent, I use my best judgement. I can't think of anything else to add.

 

[mikebr99]

If you walk into a room (and don't walk into the thing) I think it would be virtually impossible to detect an invisible statue unless you interact with it somehow in many (not all) cases.

Virtually impossible = DC 30 (stealth check) vs pc's perception.

We're talking about heros here... nothing is virtually impossible... hard maybe.. but you as a DM has to set the difficulty for the pc's to overcome everything.

 

[Corwin]

There's a 2 foot tall invisible lawn gnome statue on an otherwise clean shelf.

• No dust, no cobwebs, the shelf is not bending under the weight of the statue, nothing.
• You don't have a bat's sonar.
• You don't have keen enough hearing to hear the air molecules bouncing off of it.
• It doesn't have a unique smell, it's not making any noise.
• It's not sparking magic gnome dust to give away it's position.
• Its' a clean room and there's not enough dust floating in the air to give away it's position
• There's no pigeon sitting on top of it, no spider crawling over it or anything else

How could you possibly notice it unless you happen to bump into it?

But my answer included examples that ran the gamut, from being undetectable without special abilities to it being obvious there was something you couldn't see with options in between. The undetectable statue is just one possibility of many.

I don't understand why it bothers you that there's a chance the DM may show some creativity and think about how people would perceive the world around them.

The "invisible object in the room" has featured in more than one game I've played, and is a pretty common trope of fantasy/sci-fi/comics.

It's also off topic of creatures running around in combat turning invisible, and is something simply not covered by the rules. When the rules are silent, I use my best judgement. I can't think of anything else to add.

Nevermind. The goalpost is moving around so fast I've lost track of it completely.

 

[SkidAce]

Virtually impossible = DC 30 (stealth check) vs pc's perception.

We're talking about heros here... nothing is virtually impossible... hard maybe.. but you as a DM has to set the difficulty for the pc's to overcome everything.

Actually, the book says the DM decides if a roll is necessary.

 

[Oofta]

Actually, the book says the DM decides if a roll is necessary.

I have a player in my home game who has a passive perception of 30 (rogue/cleric +5 proficiency +5 expertise +5 observant +5 sentinel shield). He still doesn't have sonar, nor automatic see invisible.

 

[Oofta]

Nevermind. The goalpost is moving around so fast I've lost track of it completely.

How so? I stated there was an invisible statue in a room and that in some cases it interacted with the environment in a way that could be perceived, and in others you could not. I gave an example where the statue did not interact with the environment in a way that could be perceived.

This was a direct response to your comment

I find these two examples to be nothing alike. You are equating being able to see everything around the invisible statue, to being blind and not seeing anything in the room at all. No wonder you flat out disallow your PC their chances. You relate scenarios to extreme, exaggerated conditions until it fits your desire to zero out any possibility.

You seem to have a problem with my equating not being able to see objects in a room with ... not being able to see objects in a room. The only difference is whether you can see nothing in a room or you can not see one object. How is that different?

 

[Pathkeeper24601]

I have a player in my home game who has a passive perception of 30 (rogue/cleric +5 proficiency +5 expertise +5 observant +5 sentinel shield). He still doesn't have sonar, nor automatic see invisible.

If I had a player that put that much effort into perception and didn't notice stuff, I would be looking for new players.

 

[Corwin]

How so? I stated there was an invisible statue in a room...

You mean the invisible figurine on a shelf in a hospital?