D&D (2024) What spells should be dropped?

[mellored]

I don't see any reason to remove spells. Every one of them is a piece of worldbuilding, created by some NPC for a reason, that adds to the richness of the setting (whatever setting). Also, options are good, and ignorable if you don't care about them.

We do not have infinite pages to use. Each spell makes the books more expensive, or takes up space that more interesting options could fill.

Removing the least interesting options increases the average.

Like combining sky writing into control weather.

 

[mellored]

I find pass without trace is... a tolerable necessary evil.
Here is my reason: When thing come to stealth, especially group stealth, the one decide success or fail isn't the rouge who is best at it, it is the shortest plank in the basket, aka their 8 dex tin can teammates.

IMO
Pass without a trace.
For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you can use your Dexterity (Stealth) roll, and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its passage.

That could still be +10 for an 8Dex character.

 

[Yaarel]

Maybe for a spell like Pass Without Trace,

the spell allows each character to "Take 20" on the Ability Check d20 roll.

That way, the Skill in question (here Stealth) becomes more reliable.

But, it still helps characters who invest in Ability Score, Skill Proficiency, and Expertise.

Take 20 would make Advantage useless, but in this context, it seems appropriate.

 

[TheSword]

I find pass without trace is... a tolerable necessary evil.
Here is my reason: When thing come to stealth, especially group stealth, the one decide success or fail isn't the rouge who is best at it, it is the shortest plank in the basket, aka their 8 dex tin can teammates. Now barbarian is good at stealth now thank to primal knowledge, you still have cleric, paladin and fighter(str). It's not like rouge can summon supernatural shadow to cover them, at least without a subclass focus on this kind of thing.
Rouge can scout ahead using their excellent stealth, but if thing goes south, nobody can save them. I think it is also the reason why player like throw their familiar to scout, cause they are expendable.

Edit: Plus it is on primal list, I am ok with it considering who can cast it.

Exactly, Druids and higher level rangers is pretty niche.

Not to mention it’s concentration. There are a lot of good primal concentration spells. That alone means other spells are competitive.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

OBSOLETE LEGACY SPELLS
THAT SHOULD NOW BE SKILL CHECKS
IN 5e

Legend Lore 5 − History
Find The Path 6 − Survival
Locate Animals Or Plants 2 − Survival

I have some quibbles here. These spell have utility for DM, to run a plot or running published adventures
They should be rewitten with that in mind.

I use Legend Lore to drop info they have failed to find or to indicate that McGuffin is totally new, it has no legend.
Find the path should be for legendary things and give a direction if out of range.
Locate animals or plants should be for legendary indicidual things and also give a hint of direction. Only failing if on another plane.

Contact Other Plane 5
Augury 2
Divination 4
Commune With Nature 5
Commune 5
Speak With Dead 3

I would keep them but make them rituals. Again a useful tool for dropping clues.

NEAR-WORTHLESS SPELLS, TOO SITUATIONAL

Hallucinatory Terrain 4
Mirage Arcane 7

Make as rituals but you must be this level to cast it.

Imprisonment 9

I like the flavour of Imprisonment but I do admit that is not likely to be taken, but not every spell should have adventuring application.
Though Imprisonment could be a plot spell. Perhaps the big bad cannot be killed but only imprisoned. Hmm that is giving me an idea.

Move Earth 6
Secret Chest 4
Illusory Script 1
Animal Messenger 2
Skywrite 2xg
Instant Summons 6

I would agree that they are situational but I also believe that, that is not a good reason to get rid of them
Some should be rituals and Instant Summons is too expensive for what it does.

TOO WEAK FOR ANY SLOT

Color Spray 1
Acid Arrow 2
Witch Bolt 1ph
Warding Bond 2


SPELLS SORELY NEEDING REDESIGN

Reincarnate 5 − make level 1, so dead PCs come back as new PCs with memory
Passwall 5 − phase thru any solid object, make ethereal effects lower level
Daylight 3 − merge with Continual Flame
Water Walk 3


THE FOLLOWING SPELLS NEED DEMOTION TO LOWER SLOT
OR ELSE GET A SIGNIFICANT BUFF OR REDISIGN ...


REDESIGN AS A CANTRIP

Darkvision 2 − rewrite as cantrip
Water Breathing 3 − rewrite as cantrip


DEMOTE TO SLOT 1

Phantom Steed 3
Continual Flame 2
Cordon Of Arrows 2
Flame Blade 2
Magic Weapon 2
Ray Of Enfeeblement 2
Snowball Storm 2xg
Dust Devil 2xg
Cloud of Daggers

Irresistible Dance 6 − level 1 ! (Compare Hideous Laughter and Entangle)

No comment

Barkskin 2 − PLAYTEST FIXED THIS WITH A MORE USEFUL BUFF

Agreed

DEMOTE TO SLOT 2

Faithful Hound 4
Wall Of Water 3xg
Plant Growth 3 − might need redesign
Meld Into Stone 3
Flame Arrows 3xg
Vampiric Touch 3
Conjure Barrage 3ph
Grasping Vine 4ph

i would not have an issue with that.

CONSOLIDATE ALL TELEPATHY INTO SINGLE "TELEPATHY SPELL" AT SLOT 2

Telepathy 8ph
Telepathy Language (Monster Manual)
Sending 3
Tongues 3
Telepathic Bond 5
Comprehend Languages 1 − might need redesign anyway to make worthy of prep

Not sure I would agree. Instant comms is very powerful
sending should probably be a ritual.

DEMOTE TO SLOT 3

Guards And Wards 6
Sequester 7
Elemental Bane 4xg
Creation 5
Cloudkill 5
Programmed Illusion 6
Stone Shape 4
Immolation 5xg
Guardian Of Faith 4
Ice Storm 4
Aura Of Life 4ph
Phantasmal Killer 4
Flame Strike 5
Circle Of Death 6


DEMOTE TO SLOT 4

Storm Of Vengeance 9
Hallow 5
Wind Walk 6
Investiture Of Ice 6xg
Investiture Of Flame 6xg
Control Winds 5xg
Geas 5
Insect Plague 5
Divine Word 7
Investiture Of Wind 6xg
Tree Stride 5
Arcane Gate 6ph
Create Undead 6
Arcane Sword 7
Weird 9
Investiture Of Stone 6xg
Transmute Rock 5xg


DEMOTE TO SLOT 5

Control Weather 8
Word Of Recall 6
Demiplane 8
Magnificent Mansion 7
Holy Aura 8
Transport Via Plants 6
Blade Barrier 6
Wall Of Thorns 6
Wall Of Ice 6
Project Image 7
Prismatic Spray 7
Sunbeam 6

Resurrection 7 (Revivify 3 is now a gamechanger for resurrection spells)


DEMOTE TO SLOT 6

Teleport 7
Etherealness 7
Fire Storm 7
Time Stop 9


DEMOTE TO SLOT 7

True Resurrection 9 − needs redesign (Revivify 3 is now a gamechanger)

Animal Shapes 8
Earthquake 8
Sunburst 8


DEMOTE TO SLOT 8

Power Word Kill 9
Gate 9

If they did it, I would not be upset.

PROMOTE TO SLOT "10"

Forcecage 7
− is one of the few spells that is actually broken
− increase to slot 8 or 9
− or better yet, redesign completely

Wish 9
− not "broken" ... but ...
− so much better than all of the other spells, even the ones in slot 9
− make Wish an Epic Boon

Except for Sorcerer. I think that the current Sorcerer wish at level 18 is appropiate.

THE FOLLOWING SPELLS NEED A MINOR BUFF
TO COMPETE BETTER WITH OTHER SPELLS IN THE SAME SLOT
− MOST NEED TO BECOME WORTH PREPPING
− MAKE MORE USEFUL MORE SITUATIONS
− BUT SOME NEED TO BE A BIT STRONGER
...


BUFF THESE CANTRIPS

Sword Burst 0tc
Poison Spray 0
Gust 0xg
Friends 0ph − probably needs redesign
Shape Water 0xg
Acid Splash 0
Produce Flame 0
Control Flames 0xg
Spare The Dying 0
Message 0


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 1

Floating Disk 1
Unseen Servant 1
Speak With Animals 1
Arms Of Hadar 1ph
Ray Of Sickness 1ph


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 2

Gentle Repose 2
Arcanist's Magic Aura 2
Zone Of Truth 2
Gust Of Wind 2
Protection From Poison 2
Calm Emotions 2
Knock


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 3

Elemental Weapon 3ph
Remove Curse 3
Speak With Plants 3
Nondetection 3
Gaseous Form 3
Wall Of Sand 3xg
Wind Wall 3
Hunger Of Hadar 3ph


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 4

Private Sanctum 4
Control Water 4
Locate Creature 4
Blight 4
Dominate Beast 4
Stoneskin 4
Wall Of Fire 4


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 5

Dream 5
Planar Binding 5
Mislead 5


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 6

Forbiddance 6
Primordial Ward 6xg


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 7

Symbol 7
Finger Of Death 7
Delayed Blast 7


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 8

Power Word Stun 8
Horrid Wilting 8xg
Incendiary Cloud 8
Feeblemind 8
Antimagic Field 8 − negating ones own magic is too situational


NOTE AGAIN, THESE SLOT 9 SPELLS ARE UNWORTHY OF SLOT 9

Storm Of Vengeance 9 − truly a less useful spell
Imprisonment 9
Weird 9
Time Stop 9 − unworthy as written
Power Word Kill 9
Gate 9

Some of these should be rituals in my opinion.

 

[Nadan]

Exactly, Druids and higher level rangers is pretty niche.

Not to mention it’s concentration. There are a lot of good primal concentration spells. That alone means other spells are competitive.

Ranger can have it started at Lv.5, I think it is a very reasonable level for them.

 

[TheSword]

Ranger can have it started at Lv.5, I think it is a very reasonable level for them.

Absolutely!

 

[TheSword]

I would argue that it is RAI, given that spells cannot be cast through the dome. WoTC does not side-line caster like that deliberately

I stand corrected. Just seen a Jem tweet that says it is rules as intended not to shoot arrows out. Doesn’t help with glaives and reach weapons, cunning actions to leap in and out and all the other shenanigans a wall that’s impervious to one side but not the other can do though.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Spells are specifically called out as not being castable through the dome.

Objects inside when cast are specifically called out at being able to pass through the dome.

I don’t really understand how you can claim RAI. I agree that a no-brainer decision if not more but I think the spell is pretty clear.

RAW it clear but they nerf casters and make then bowmen (or rock throwers). That is out of character for 5e.

 

[Stalker0]

For pass with trace. Everyone gets advantage on stealth checks, and penalities to stealth do not apply.

So the fighter in plate can now stealth reasonably well, and that was good enough for me