D&D (2024) What spells should be dropped?

[UngainlyTitan]

Yes

…

…

A dome of force that I can see through of but you can’t.

That I can move through but you can’t

That I can shoot arrows throw but you can’t

That can last for 8 hours and only takes a minute to cast. It is the most powerful defensive spell in the game that would revolutionize/imbalance warfare in every single world it existed.

It’s a terribly balanced spell in its current incarnation that needs removing or seriously modifying. I.e don’t make the wall impervious to other creatures and make it opaque to everyone.

Why do people believe that they can shoot arrows through it?
I generally rule that you cannot.

 

[TheSword]

Why do people believe that they can shoot arrows through it?
I generally rule that you cannot.

Because it says “Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely.” Plus the archer can see through it.

Stopping that Is a sensible house rule. Probably not enough for me to allow it, when folks can step in and out of an impervious barrier. Easier just to ban it or threaten the wrath of the gods for using it.

What I would like to see is a ward spell - as a ritual.

A ward that makes a campsite invisible and silent unless someone attacks through it.
A ward that makes an impassible hemisphere of force around a campsite until someone inside moves through it.
A ward that makes an opaque sphere that doesn’t affect movement but does affect sight
All these also protects the area from weather and environmental effects

Castable as a ritual (so 10 min casting time) with no overlap. So a caster has a choice between make an area impervious or make it invisible or make it a defensive position but not all three.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Why do people believe that they can shoot arrows through it?
I generally rule that you cannot.

Because as written the dome allows objects inside to pass out, which would also include arrows in flight.

I rule the same way you do, it should be Tiny Hut not Tiny Bunker. But that's a house rule.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Because as written the dome allows objects inside to pass out, which would also include arrows in flight.

I rule the same way you do, it should be Tiny Hut not Tiny Bunker. But that's a house rule.

I would argue that it is RAI, given that spells cannot be cast through the dome. WoTC does not side-line caster like that deliberately

 

[Yaarel]

Here is a list of the worst spells in 5e.

They either are too weak or their usefulness is too infrequent.

A main consideration here is if a spell is actually worth preparing. If a spell isnt worth preparing, then it probably shouldnt be in the design space of a "spell".

The following spells in this post need to
• be deleted
• demote to a lower slot where they can compete with lower spells
• buff up to stay competitive in the same slot
• or be completely redesigned


ABBREVIATIONS

[NUMBER] (official spell slot level)
ph (in Players Handbook but not in the SRD)
xg (Xanathars Guide to Everything)
tc (Tashas Cauldron of Everything)


ALMOST STRICTLY USELESS !

Identify 1 − identification automatically happens during every Short Rest


BAD CANTRIPS
− DELETE OR REDISIGN

True Strike 0 − perhaps combat Action like Dodge or Charge
Blade Ward 0ph − perhaps combat Action like Dodge or Charge

Magic Stone 0xg
Mold Earth 0xg
Thunderclap 0xg


OBSOLETE LEGACY SPELLS
THAT SHOULD NOW BE SKILL CHECKS
IN 5e

Legend Lore 5 − History
Find The Path 6 − Survival
Locate Animals Or Plants 2 − Survival
Detect Poison And Disease 1 − Medicine
Animal Friendship 1 − Animal Handling
Enthrall 2 − Persuasion/Intimidation/Bluff
Find Traps 2 − Perception/Investigation
Jump 1 − an Athletics stunt requiring a check, beyond the reliable Jump distance
Detect Evil And Good 1 − Arcana/Religion

Feign Death 3ph − perhaps Medicine
Glibness 8 − perhaps Deception
Detect Thoughts 2 − perhaps Insight

Charm Person 1 − as written, might instead be an Ability (Persuasion) Check


SPELLS THAT RELY ON DM GIVING A HINT
(MAYBE MAKE INTO SKILL CHECKS OR PURCHASE AS CONSUMABLE MAGIC ITEM)

Contact Other Plane 5
Augury 2
Divination 4
Commune With Nature 5
Commune 5
Speak With Dead 3


NEAR-WORTHLESS SPELLS, TOO SITUATIONAL

Hallucinatory Terrain 4
Mirage Arcane 7
Imprisonment 9
Move Earth 6
Secret Chest 4
Illusory Script 1
Animal Messenger 2
Skywrite 2xg
Instant Summons 6


TOO WEAK FOR ANY SLOT

Color Spray 1
Acid Arrow 2
Witch Bolt 1ph
Warding Bond 2


SPELLS SORELY NEEDING REDESIGN

Reincarnate 5 − make level 1, so dead PCs come back as new PCs with memory
Passwall 5 − phase thru any solid object, make ethereal effects lower level
Daylight 3 − merge with Continual Flame
Water Walk 3


THE FOLLOWING SPELLS NEED DEMOTION TO LOWER SLOT
OR ELSE GET A SIGNIFICANT BUFF OR REDISIGN ...


REDESIGN AS A CANTRIP

Darkvision 2 − rewrite as cantrip
Water Breathing 3 − rewrite as cantrip


DEMOTE TO SLOT 1

Phantom Steed 3
Continual Flame 2
Cordon Of Arrows 2
Flame Blade 2
Magic Weapon 2
Ray Of Enfeeblement 2
Snowball Storm 2xg
Dust Devil 2xg
Cloud of Daggers

Irresistible Dance 6 − level 1 ! (Compare Hideous Laughter and Entangle)

Barkskin 2 − PLAYTEST FIXED THIS WITH A MORE USEFUL BUFF


DEMOTE TO SLOT 2

Faithful Hound 4
Wall Of Water 3xg
Plant Growth 3 − might need redesign
Meld Into Stone 3
Flame Arrows 3xg
Vampiric Touch 3
Conjure Barrage 3ph
Grasping Vine 4ph


CONSOLIDATE ALL TELEPATHY INTO SINGLE "TELEPATHY SPELL" AT SLOT 2

Telepathy 8ph
Telepathy Language (Monster Manual)
Sending 3
Tongues 3
Telepathic Bond 5
Comprehend Languages 1 − might need redesign anyway to make worthy of prep


DEMOTE TO SLOT 3

Guards And Wards 6
Sequester 7
Elemental Bane 4xg
Creation 5
Cloudkill 5
Programmed Illusion 6
Stone Shape 4
Immolation 5xg
Guardian Of Faith 4
Ice Storm 4
Aura Of Life 4ph
Phantasmal Killer 4
Flame Strike 5
Circle Of Death 6


DEMOTE TO SLOT 4

Storm Of Vengeance 9
Hallow 5
Wind Walk 6
Investiture Of Ice 6xg
Investiture Of Flame 6xg
Control Winds 5xg
Geas 5
Insect Plague 5
Divine Word 7
Investiture Of Wind 6xg
Tree Stride 5
Arcane Gate 6ph
Create Undead 6
Arcane Sword 7
Weird 9
Investiture Of Stone 6xg
Transmute Rock 5xg


DEMOTE TO SLOT 5

Control Weather 8
Word Of Recall 6
Demiplane 8
Magnificent Mansion 7
Holy Aura 8
Transport Via Plants 6
Blade Barrier 6
Wall Of Thorns 6
Wall Of Ice 6
Project Image 7
Prismatic Spray 7
Sunbeam 6

Resurrection 7 (Revivify 3 is now a gamechanger for resurrection spells)


DEMOTE TO SLOT 6

Teleport 7
Etherealness 7
Fire Storm 7
Time Stop 9


DEMOTE TO SLOT 7

True Resurrection 9 − needs redesign (Revivify 3 is now a gamechanger)

Animal Shapes 8
Earthquake 8
Sunburst 8


DEMOTE TO SLOT 8

Power Word Kill 9
Gate 9


PROMOTE TO SLOT "10"

Forcecage 7
− is one of the few spells that is actually broken
− increase to slot 8 or 9
− or better yet, redesign completely

Wish 9
− not "broken" ... but ...
− so much better than all of the other spells, even the ones in slot 9
− make Wish an Epic Boon


THE FOLLOWING SPELLS NEED A MINOR BUFF
TO COMPETE BETTER WITH OTHER SPELLS IN THE SAME SLOT
− MOST NEED TO BECOME WORTH PREPPING
− MAKE MORE USEFUL MORE SITUATIONS
− BUT SOME NEED TO BE A BIT STRONGER
...


BUFF THESE CANTRIPS

Sword Burst 0tc
Poison Spray 0
Gust 0xg
Friends 0ph − probably needs redesign
Shape Water 0xg
Acid Splash 0
Produce Flame 0
Control Flames 0xg
Spare The Dying 0
Message 0


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 1

Floating Disk 1
Unseen Servant 1
Speak With Animals 1
Arms Of Hadar 1ph
Ray Of Sickness 1ph


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 2

Gentle Repose 2
Arcanist's Magic Aura 2
Zone Of Truth 2
Gust Of Wind 2
Protection From Poison 2
Calm Emotions 2
Knock


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 3

Elemental Weapon 3ph
Remove Curse 3
Speak With Plants 3
Nondetection 3
Gaseous Form 3
Wall Of Sand 3xg
Wind Wall 3
Hunger Of Hadar 3ph


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 4

Private Sanctum 4
Control Water 4
Locate Creature 4
Blight 4
Dominate Beast 4
Stoneskin 4
Wall Of Fire 4


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 5

Dream 5
Planar Binding 5
Mislead 5


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 6

Forbiddance 6
Primordial Ward 6xg


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 7

Symbol 7
Finger Of Death 7
Delayed Blast 7


BUFF THESE SPELLS IN SLOT 8

Power Word Stun 8
Horrid Wilting 8xg
Incendiary Cloud 8
Feeblemind 8
Antimagic Field 8 − negating ones own magic is too situational


NOTE AGAIN, THESE SLOT 9 SPELLS ARE UNWORTHY OF SLOT 9

Storm Of Vengeance 9 − truly a less useful spell
Imprisonment 9
Weird 9
Time Stop 9 − unworthy as written
Power Word Kill 9
Gate 9

 

[James Gasik]

I love how many people seem to want Wish to only exist as a spell that lets you use a spell slot to pretend you had a specific lower level spell prepared or a spell that no one in their right mind would cast for fear of the DM taking free license to mess with them, lol.

You're the DM, you already have free license to mess with players, do you need to use their own class ability to do so?

 

[Nadan]

I love how many people seem to want Wish to only exist as a spell that lets you use a spell slot to pretend you had a specific lower level spell prepared or a spell that no one in their right mind would cast for fear of the DM taking free license to mess with them, lol.

You're the DM, you already have free license to mess with players, do you need to use their own class ability to do so?

Base on this thread, most people here just want to get rid of it. Messing with player are just half of the fun, the other half for me is make them come up some creative wording for avoiding monkey paw. Watching them doing mental gymnastics amuse me.

 

[TheSword]

I would argue that it is RAI, given that spells cannot be cast through the dome. WoTC does not side-line caster like that deliberately

Spells are specifically called out as not being castable through the dome.

Objects inside when cast are specifically called out at being able to pass through the dome.

I don’t really understand how you can claim RAI. I agree that a no-brainer decision if not more but I think the spell is pretty clear.

 

[Nadan]

I find pass without trace is... a tolerable necessary evil.
Here is my reason: When thing come to stealth, especially group stealth, the one decide success or fail isn't the rouge who is best at it, it is the shortest plank in the basket, aka their 8 dex tin can teammates. Now barbarian is good at stealth now thank to primal knowledge, you still have cleric, paladin and fighter(str). It's not like rouge can summon supernatural shadow to cover them, at least without a subclass focus on this kind of thing.
Rouge can scout ahead using their excellent stealth, but if thing goes south, nobody can save them. I think it is also the reason why player like throw their familiar to scout, cause they are expendable.

Edit: Plus it is on primal list, I am ok with it considering who can cast it.

 

[Horwath]

Pass without Trace. Or at least the ridiculous +10 to stealth. That's some 3E bonus right there. "What's bounded proficiency?" says WOTC.

only +5 to stealth, Concentration, 24hr duration, 60ft radius.

This will reduce the breakage of bounded accuracy, but with added utility it will compensate for halving the bonus.