Maybe because it was made by this design team, and fit their marketingthink even the first time around (kitchensink everything 3E). They're probably more attached to it than FR. If Eberron was a dry run for the thinking behind 4E, it's no wonder I dislike both, and disagree with their design philosophies. I hope D&D ends up in someone else's hands soon.
What the Dorruh are you doing to my Eberron?
- Thread starter Remathilis
- Start date
Henry
Autoexreginated
Personally, I don't like rolling Eberron's planes into the default cosmology, BUT, if they keep it in a form in which this fact is ignorable (which sounds like the plan, from the first quote), I'm fine with it. It's not like planar conjunctions will matter, either; as written, the only conjunctions that matter are Eberron and one of the other planes, anyway, not any of the other planes conjoining. Now, if some of the fluff said that there were bad things from Kythri and Fernia conjoining, I'd say, "WHY?" because they're now on the same plane. 
Still looking forward to it, though I was able earlier this year to run an Eberron Game pretty completely just using the stuff out of the three core books! Only thing really missing were the Dragonmark feats...
Still looking forward to it, though I was able earlier this year to run an Eberron Game pretty completely just using the stuff out of the three core books! Only thing really missing were the Dragonmark feats...
Henry
Autoexreginated
Personally, I don't like rolling Eberron's planes into the default cosmology, BUT, if they keep it in a form in which this fact is ignorable (which sounds like the plan, from the first quote), I'm fine with it. It's not like planar conjunctions will matter, either; as written, the only conjunctions that matter are Eberron and one of the other planes, anyway, not any of the other planes conjoining. Now, if some of the fluff said that there were bad things from Kythri and Fernia conjoining, I'd say, "WHY?" because they're now on the same plane.
Still looking forward to it, though I was able earlier this year to run an Eberron Game pretty completely just using the stuff out of the three core books! Only thing really missing were the Dragonmark feats...
Still looking forward to it, though I was able earlier this year to run an Eberron Game pretty completely just using the stuff out of the three core books! Only thing really missing were the Dragonmark feats...
Hairfoot
First Post
Thanks, Hexgrid.
I'm not too wedded to the concept of hermetically sealed game worlds, so I rather like the idea of PCs being able to travel between campaign settings, with the caveat that it should be enormously difficult for them to do so.
Remathilis
Legend
You could in 3e; it was strongly implied if you went far enough through the plane of shadow, you could find another cosmology. That, of course, assumed the world touched the plane of shadow, but I didn't see a cosmolgy WotC put out that DIDN'T have one.
DracoSuave
First Post
You always could.... in Planescape!
All these different cosmologies? That's just the dumbass Primes gettin' the whole turn of it all addled in their ignorant lil brains. They be rattlin' their boneboxes about how Takhesis was all in the Abyss, reality is she's stuck in the Nines and a cutter knows her as Tiamat.
Hairfoot
First Post
Indeed. But I've found that many players are turned off by a designated Planescape campaign. That's why I'd like planewalking to become a facet of the core cosmology, so that the regular D&D campaign can take an excursion to another world without fundamentally altering the basis of the campaign.
arscott
First Post
I love the world Axis--I was excited about the new planar model when I first read about it, and the Manual of the Planes was the 4e supplement that I was (and still am) most excited about. But I still think that grafting Eberron into the world axis model is a big mistake.
See, I like the world axis because it's cool. And I bought the 4e MotP because I thought the world axis was cool (and also because I'm a John Rogers Fanboy*). It gives me cool ideas, and means that I can create cool adventures or cool PCs to play.
I like Eberron because it's cool--gives cool ideas, leads to cool characters and cool adventures... you get the Idea. And I was planning on buying the 4e Ebberon book because eberron is cool. But this change--it makes Ebberon less cool.
See, one of the cool things about Eberron is the fact that its planes aren't attached to some sort of big wheel or whatever. Instead, they're unattached, floating in the astral plane, whizzing around the material plane like demented magical moons.
And like moons, they had tides, effecting the world of Eberron by making it hotter, more evil, more natural, or whatever, depending on the plane in question. And it had permanent manifest zones, like the link to the plane of sky in southern Breland that made possible a mile-tall city to exist.
James Wyatt, in the article mentioned at the beginning of this thread, lists a number of features that the planes share--that they're a place where summoned monsters come from, a place where the dead go when they die, and so forth.
But Eberron is cool because that list doesn't necessarily hold true. Eberron isn't a place where PCs go to the planes to adventure--It's a place where the planes come to them--whether it's the conjunction of the plane of madness that let forth the Daelkyr and their Aberration children to ravage the land millenia during the age of monsters, or the proximity of the plane of battles that helped turn a succession conflict into the hundred-year-long Last War.
When you say that everything has a fixed place in that cosmos, that the astral dominion of Shavarath can never be closer to the world than the feywild that is Thelanis, you've lost some of that coolness.
I think the world axis is a wonderful cosmology, and I have no problem with applying it to settings where it doesn't detract (I've posted elsewhere about how the world axis fits Dark Sun better than the previous cosmology did). I just dislike that WotC is applying it in places where it makes the setting less cool, and worry that they'll make other changes that reduce the coolness of the settings that they publish.
At this point, I'm leaning against buying the 4e ECS--This F4nboy may have to find some other source of Eberron coolness, even if it means going back to 3rd edition (shudder) material.
________________
*Watch Leverage!
See, I like the world axis because it's cool. And I bought the 4e MotP because I thought the world axis was cool (and also because I'm a John Rogers Fanboy*). It gives me cool ideas, and means that I can create cool adventures or cool PCs to play.
I like Eberron because it's cool--gives cool ideas, leads to cool characters and cool adventures... you get the Idea. And I was planning on buying the 4e Ebberon book because eberron is cool. But this change--it makes Ebberon less cool.
See, one of the cool things about Eberron is the fact that its planes aren't attached to some sort of big wheel or whatever. Instead, they're unattached, floating in the astral plane, whizzing around the material plane like demented magical moons.
And like moons, they had tides, effecting the world of Eberron by making it hotter, more evil, more natural, or whatever, depending on the plane in question. And it had permanent manifest zones, like the link to the plane of sky in southern Breland that made possible a mile-tall city to exist.
James Wyatt, in the article mentioned at the beginning of this thread, lists a number of features that the planes share--that they're a place where summoned monsters come from, a place where the dead go when they die, and so forth.
But Eberron is cool because that list doesn't necessarily hold true. Eberron isn't a place where PCs go to the planes to adventure--It's a place where the planes come to them--whether it's the conjunction of the plane of madness that let forth the Daelkyr and their Aberration children to ravage the land millenia during the age of monsters, or the proximity of the plane of battles that helped turn a succession conflict into the hundred-year-long Last War.
When you say that everything has a fixed place in that cosmos, that the astral dominion of Shavarath can never be closer to the world than the feywild that is Thelanis, you've lost some of that coolness.
I think the world axis is a wonderful cosmology, and I have no problem with applying it to settings where it doesn't detract (I've posted elsewhere about how the world axis fits Dark Sun better than the previous cosmology did). I just dislike that WotC is applying it in places where it makes the setting less cool, and worry that they'll make other changes that reduce the coolness of the settings that they publish.
At this point, I'm leaning against buying the 4e ECS--This F4nboy may have to find some other source of Eberron coolness, even if it means going back to 3rd edition (shudder) material.
________________
*Watch Leverage!
cwhs01
First Post
IMO this comes off as just a wee bit arrogant. Presumably not intended as such.
And again: Accesability and usability is not to be frowned upon.
And it doesn't need to be an either/or choice between great fluff and great playability.
say what?
what, what?
FourthBear
First Post
Obviously, it's unclear exactly how they will implement the changes to the cosmology, but I personally find it unlikely that 4e Eberron will be losing the planar conjunctions. After all, two of the planes they are specifically merging (Thelanis/Feywild, Dolurrh/Shadowfell) already have a very large component of waxing and waning in their interactions with the World in the official 4e World Axis. My suspicion is that they will preserve the 13 planes and their special "orbiting" influence on Eberron. They will likely work some rebranding of Dolurrh to allow for parallel, Shadowfell-style areas. Looking over the other planes, I'm not sure what, if anything they would do to change the planes. Thelanis is already so close to the Feywild that there's not much to do. Many of the other planes can just be made into Astral domains or regions in the Elemental Chaos with no particular changes otherwise.
My primary concerns are not what they will remove, but what specific 4e World Axis elements they might introduce poorly. As I said before: are they going to want to introduce the primordials and their conflict with the gods to Eberron? Additionally: the Abyss and the Nine Hells. They are so heavily referenced in specific ways in adventures, Dragon articles and the like, there may a strong desire to introduce these into Eberron. Could they do so somewhat gracefully? Maybe. I can see the appeal, since it would allow DMs to use the various 1e-4e fiend inspired material with less work, but as other have noted, could reduce the world's distinctiveness.
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